Will Iconic Monsters be re-buffed for levels 15-30?

[jodyjohnson]

I feel like the Dragons may actually be brought down in power for their size.

Young green at large. Probably see the gargantuan dragons brought down to where you could fight them earlier. Certainly bring the colossal red down to where you might fight them occassionally rather than once at the end of a high level campaign.

P.S. Bring their fly speed into the realm of mortal creatures as well.

 

[UndeadScottsman]

Given the Torrasque's place as a sort of "uber" monster, wherein dispite it being a CR 20, it has many abilities that make the monsters in the ELH look like canon fodder (Epic level canon fodder, but canon fodder none the less), I'd be highly surprised if it isn't pushed to at least a CR 30, if not higher.

 

[coyote6]

I'm curious to see what the meaning of "CR X" is in 4e. Currently, "CR X" means "uses up 20-25% of the resources (which are mainly refreshed daily) of a standard (four characters, etc.) party of level X", but with a change to characters having a lot of "per encounter" abilities, that definition won't make much sense. So, what's the new definition?

 

[Lord Zardoz]

I expect that most monsters will be in the same neighborhood that they are now for challenge ratings, ie: Pit Fiend / Balor will still be reasonable at about 20th Level. But I fully expect Dragons to have a top end at the games default top end (ie: CR 30 Ancient Great Wrym Dragons), as well as the Tarrasque also being at the top end.

I also expect that they will probably do more than just the standard 1 HD Orc for the Orc entry. I expect to see something like this for the Orc entry:

Orc Cannon Fodder CR 1/4
Orc Regular CR 2
Orc Brute CR 4, Orc Shaman CR 4
Orc Champion CR 5.

If they do that for some of the other humanoid type monsters, they should have plenty of beasties to keep us reasonably busy for all levels.

END COMMUNICATION

 

[sukael]

Multiple R&Ders have stated that 21-30 is epic. I trust WotC's opinions on 4e more than yours.

Who's to say that being able to beseech a high angel for aid in battle, call back the hero who defeated the Grand Evil once upon a time and died in the process, see fate changing around you, reverse gravity itself, imprison a being's soul, transform a rock into a fire-breathing dragon, destroy a god's artifact, slay a creature with a word, and even stop time itself couldn't be described as "epic"?

 

[ruleslawyer]

Multiple R&Ders have stated that 21-30 is epic. I trust WotC's opinions on 4e more than yours.

And what, pray tell, do they mean by "epic"?

I'm not stating an opinion that in any way implies a contradiction with what the WotC R&D team is saying. I am, however, suggesting that the fact that the core rules include spells up to 25th level, AND the fact that the designers have clearly stated that the math, and consequently the power curve, remains smooth across levels 1-30 may, just may, imply that "epic" in the context of 4e level 30 is more like "epic" in the context of 3e level 20 (see sukael's post above) rather than "epic" in the sense of 3e level 30.

 

[Shade]

As long as the archfiends, archomentals, celestial paragons, and so forth are significantly higher up the power curve than their minions, I'll be happy.

 

[ruleslawyer]

Multiple R&Ders have stated that 21-30 is epic. I trust WotC's opinions on 4e more than yours.

Sorry to harp, but:

Do you trust the Q&A, in that case, where it was specifically stated that 4e D&D's 1-30 levels are designed to emulate the power curve (and I quote) of 3e's levels 4-14?

 

[Simia Saturnalia]

Sorry to harp, but:

Do you trust the Q&A, in that case, where it was specifically stated that 4e D&D's 1-30 levels are designed to emulate the power curve (and I quote) of 3e's levels 4-14?

Any linkable transcription, report, etc?

 

[ThirdWizard]

Sorry to harp, but:

Do you trust the Q&A, in that case, where it was specifically stated that 4e D&D's 1-30 levels are designed to emulate the power curve (and I quote) of 3e's levels 4-14?

I believe what you're thinking of is someone stating that they want to keep the "sweet spot" that is seen in those level ranges across the board from 1-30. It's not talking about power scale, its talking about how those levels are generally considered the most fun and making 1-30 more like those in terms of playability.