Will Iconic Monsters be re-buffed for levels 15-30?

[psionotic]

Right, levels 4-14 are currently where the game (3.x) is still fun. I completely agree with the developers on this point, having stopped running games that go above 13 or so myself. They think they can make the game balanced and fun from 1-30. I wish them (and us) the best in this regard, even though I'd honestly be satisfied if the game was fun from 2-22.

I don't think the 4-14 comment was meant in any way to signify that it would be the default power range, now elongated over 30 levels instead of 10.

 

[Plane Sailing]

Personally I hope that they don't waste any space on the Tarresque. I've always thought it was a silly idea and still do

I'd rather see Balors and Pit Fiends re-buffed for epic levels, rather than have new epic demonic foes created out of whole cloth. I like the resonance of Balors and Pit Fiends being to top of the fiendish food chains.

Cheers

 

[ruleslawyer]

I believe what you're thinking of is someone stating that they want to keep the "sweet spot" that is seen in those level ranges across the board from 1-30. It's not talking about power scale, its talking about how those levels are generally considered the most fun and making 1-30 more like those in terms of playability.

In particular, what I was addressing was the initial issue that top-level monsters would need to be "rebalanced" for 30 levels rather than 20. My point was merely that rebalancing the game for 30 levels isn't shifting the power level higher at 30 than 3e was at 20. I think this has been borne out.

 

[Jhaelen]

Will we see a large new array of new and 3E-created monsters for levels 15-30?

Or will the Iconics be buffed up to higher CRs?

I'm guessing mainly buff-ups. I think we'll be seeing something similar to 'monster classes'. I.e. advancement tables to create an orc of any level without having to use (player) class levels or templates.

 

[Aloïsius]

Will there be something like "CR" in 4e anyway ?
Remember, we are supposed to fight MORE creature on average. Example : 5 trolls against 5 level 6 PC. This means that monsters have been debuffed, IMHO.

 

[Upper_Krust]

Howdy Plane Sailing!

Personally I hope that they don't waste any space on the Tarresque. I've always thought it was a silly idea and still do

Why no love for Godzilla the Tarrasque?

I fail to see how (within the greater context of the Monster Manual) a 'big scary monster' is any more silly than [insert ANY monster name].

I'd rather see Balors and Pit Fiends re-buffed for epic levels,

...while we're at it lets 'stretch the Dretch' out to 10th-level play!

Doesn't re-buffing weaker monsters to be more powerful simply make the addition of ten levels to the core game meaningless? Or even worse, self-defeating (I now need 30 levels to do 20 levels worth of 'stuff').

rather than have new epic demonic foes created out of whole cloth.

If new = bad and old = good why are you even interested in 4th Edition?

Why can't the Balors & Pit Fiends be the most powerful of the 'stock' demonic/diabolic races and then after that you have unique types like Orcus, Demogorgon and so forth?

I like the resonance of Balors and Pit Fiends being to top of the fiendish food chains.

Even though they never actually have been!?

 

[JVisgaitis]

Judging by the article on the red dragon, I'd say dragons are probably epic monsters now.

 

[Mouseferatu]

Judging by the article on the red dragon, I'd say dragons are probably epic monsters now.

Well, some of them. That was, IIRC, an ancient red dragon, after all.

 

[Alzrius]

I was at one of the seminars, and one of the WotC guys said they weren't going to use the term "Challenge Rating" for monsters, but rather monsters would be rated by level, e.g. the orc is a Level 1 monster.

That said, given that it's uncertain of exactly how they're going to approach the concept of building ten levels' worth of epic play into the core rules, so it seems much too early to speculate if they're going to rework higher-end sub-epic monsters to be level 21+ threats or not.

 

[Szatany]

Judging by the article on the red dragon, I'd say dragons are probably epic monsters now.

They said somewhere (when describing differences between 1-10, 11-20, and 21-30 lvl adventures), that you will start encountering weakest dragons near the end of lvl 1-10 span.