Will the last person to leave WOTC please turn out the lights...

[BlackMoria]

Okay, the subject line is overly cynical but it did get you in here.


The burning question is....when will the bleeding stop.

Two years of layoffs. Key people leave or are shown the door. Products like Ghostwalk, Races of Faerun and others may never get published. The future of FR products are in question.

The RPGA gets a shakeup. Polyhedron gets rolled into Dungeon.
Star Wars Gamer mag is cancelled.

The magazine division gets sold off. Chainmail gets cancelled before it even gets a chance to attract market share. Now the on-line store is sold off. And rumors abound that the retail division is being sold off.

So, when will the bleeding stop? If the retail division gets sold off, is that the end or is there more to come?

How much more can WOTC bleed out..... and what does it mean for the future?

Comments?

 

[Furn_Darkside]

Here we go around the mulberry bush once again...

Salutations,

Why bother to worry about it?

There is nothing you can do about it.

It probably won't affect any of your planned purchases of the near-future.

D&D will survive at my gaming table even if it has trouble elsewhere.

Respectfully submitted
FD

 

[Neowolf]

I agree with Furn. Even if WotC themselves drop D&D all together (which I SERIOUSLY doubt is even being considered at this point), the game will live on through the third party D20 publishers and through peoples' homebrew material. Don't worry, this game won't die until we, the gamers, let it.

 

[scadgrad]

Re: Here we go around the mulberry bush once again...

Salutations,

Why bother to worry about it?

There is nothing you can do about it.

It probably won't affect any of your planned purchases of the near-future.

D&D will survive at my gaming table even if it has trouble elsewhere.

Respectfully submitted
FD

What he said...

Life is just too short to spend time worrying about things over which you have absolutely no control. D&D is fine, it's not going to disappear regardless of WotC's actions.

 

[TiQuinn]

I agree with the others. WotC has already put out enough rules and "crunchy bits" to keep most DMs happy for years to come.

They've sold off their magazines to others, so Dragon and Dungeon magazine will still be there.

They've gone on record to state that you probably won't be seeing many adventure modules from Wizards either...they just don't sell well enough for them.

They've opened up the d20 OGL Pandora's Box. Other companies can now use their system to create their own supplements and adventures, so it's not as if there won't be new material. In fact, many will argue that companies like Malhavoc Press, Green Ronin, Atlas Games, and Sword and Sorcery Studios are putting out comparable or better work right now than Wizards!

Maybe the question isn't whether the bleeding will stop, but whether we WANT it to stop. The worst thing that could happen right now is that WotC takes its ball and goes home...they'll keep the D&D brand, the Greyhawk and the Forgotten Realms trademarks/materials instead of licensing it out to another company or selling them outright. Then no new material can come out for these settings til Wizards decides to create something. Perhaps the best thing is for Wizards to get out of D&D entirely.

 

[alsih2o]

Phoenix enterprises inc. why not just go there, it seems that the various incarnations fromgygax to wotc have died and risen from the ashes so many times that it shouldn't even be a drama anymore.....

i am just gonna wait for 4e......

i mean, unless they come up with a game system that needs constant maintenance or one that constantly has an audience turnover these kinds of projects seem doomed from the start.

i wish everyone over there the best, but once you have the core books there ain't much else they have a sure-fire hit with, yes?

 

[BlackMoria]

I agree with you to a degree. D&D will survive for a great many players - after all, all you need is the three core books, some dice and your imagination.

Is is really that simple? D&D when into decline under the latter days of TSR and it was 3E and the OGL that revived it. It will not die as you have pointed but is survival enough? Remember, a great number of people have returned to the fold with the release of 3E. Why did they leave in the first place? So, I say again - is survival enough?

How many people felt like closet gamers under the dark days of TSR - and 3E let us out of the closet. Do you want to shoved back in?

What if D&D gets sold off? In theory, the OGL could be rescinded and the d20 publishers shut down (I may be dead wrong here as I am no lawyer - I am basing this on the old adage what can be made can be unmade).

WOTC products appear in a large number of countries. Do all D20 publishers have this distribution clout outside of White Wolf? If WOTC stops publishing, what about the D&D gamers on the other side of the ponds called the Pacific and Altantic.

I am no chicken little telling you the sky is falling. But when guys like Monte Cook and Sean Reynolds and others have expressed some concern relating to the future of D&D, then I wonder if for our hobby if simply surviving is enough

Are we so cavalier to say that whatever happens to D&D will not affect us in the slightest?

 

[Tom Cashel]

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posted by BlackMoria:
"Are we so cavalier to say that whatever happens to D&D will not affect us in the slightest?"

As long as I have a PHb, a DMG, and the MM...no one can stop me from gaming. Oh yeah...dice too. Lots of pretty dice.

 

[Lady Dragon]

I'm afraid we were spoiled for 20 years when D&D belong to TSR which was in the scope of world commerce a relatively small company.And even though they made some stupid descisions and had bad management they were generally satisfied as long as a product didn't lose money.

Unfortunately WoTC got bought out by Hasbro who wanted the Card game division and got D&D thrown in as a bonus.This company is not interested in breaking even,or even making a small profit they want massive profits with minimal output on their part.

We need to feel sorry for Anthony Valterra and the other managers of the D&D line because they are caught in the middle.They are being told by their bosses that certain profit margins are expected and if they do not meet these numbers then Bad things will happen to the game and to their jobs.So they do what they can to please,the bosses,there own employees and there customers,each of whom have different desires.

And so ultimately they figure out what sells well and they do it over and over again with a slightly different look each time.And what sells my friends are Hardcover rulebooks and Campaign settings so that is what we will see from them intil circumstances change with an occasional experiment throw in for flavor.

As for what will happen to D&D and FR they aren't going anywhere most likely WoTC will continue to Publish D&D and FR for some time to come and if they decide that profits are not good enough then they will lease the lisences to one of the D20 companies and we will have to look elsewhere for our products I do not think that they will ever sell the D&D lisense outright unless they are offered an obsence amount of money because they make to much money on lisenses and Novels and these take minimal effort on WoTC's part.

All of the layoffs and the selling of various parts and pieces is there way of maximizing profits without having to take more drastic steps.

Now its not that I don't feel bad for anyone who loses his or her job but it is possible that WoTC did have more employees than they really needed.Look at some of the D20 companies with minimal staffs that manage to put out quaility products at a steady rate.

As an example lets take Green Ronin they apparently have 4 full time employees plus a number of freelance writers yet in the year 2002 they have put out 8 high quality products one of which was a Hardcover. In the same period WoTC with dozens of employees
has put out 10 products 4 of which were hardcover. Certainly not that much more than Green Ronin manages with a skeleton crew.
And the biggest irony is that while Green ronin has quite a few products planned for the rest of the year WoTC only has 4 more products planned one of which isn't even for D&D(D20 modern).

 

[Furn_Darkside]

Are we so cavalier to say that whatever happens to D&D will not affect us in the slightest?

I have never said it would not affect me, but there is little point in worrying about what may happen.

D&D has had an odd history as a license, and I am sure it will have an odd future.

Worst case scenario: A draconian business buys d&d- and somehow shuts down the d20 ogl system.

Ok, fine, I happen to be a member of a great message board community that comes up with 10 great ideas before I eat breakfast. (This one, by the way..)

How will a demise of WOTC affect my game in the long run?

Who knows?!

I may move in the long run and end up in an area where gaming is not possible.

I may find another game I would rather play.

I may finally find someone willing to be the primary dm and just worry about being a player.

Is survival enough?

Yes. Because in the short term my group is having fun and any demise is not going to change that.

I was never a closet gamer. When people ask what I do for fun, I tell them.

What about overseas gamers? Well, what about them? What about the gamers in the next town? I wish them all luck, but they are not at my gaming table.

And, iirc, Monte Cook did not show any great worry about the future of D&D. He figured someone else would just buy it up and it would live on in some form or another.

FD