D&D 5E Will there be such a game as D&D Next?

[Bedrockgames]

No argument from me on that. OTOH if you give someone DDN that is supposed to 'play however you want' then aren't you pretty much saying to them "hey, you're going to have to reflect on what you like and how you play before this is likely to work for you". Isn't it better if they give me 4e and you 1e, and some other people 3.5e? Clearly its easy enough for them to reprint all these things, so what gives? I'm lost on the need for another edition of D&D, unless they want to try something completely new.

Personally I dont want 1E. I am interested in a new edition of the game that restores some of the classic feel, takes the best things from 3E and avoids the stuff that didnt appeal to me in 4E. But I dont just want a replica of AD&D.

That said, the modular approach could work very well. It wont require any kind of rpg theorizing to figure out what modular options work and dont. Just simply knowing this option looks cool to me, or that one looks like a stinker is easy enough. And through a but of trial and error people will find what they like. All it does is give you optinos. Having to choose between those doesnt require building a system of thought around games.

 

[fjw70]

One point is that there are people that like pieces of multiple editions and aren't totally satified with any particular edition. Or that like to mix up playstyles while keeping the core rules constant. Or prefer one edition or another but think a few rules from other editions would be nice to fit into the prefered edition and want WotC to do the work to make those pieces fit. 5e will also allow WotC to create modules that support multiple playstyles without going the crunchless edition neutral route.

 

[Crazy Jerome]

For the record, when I referred to "pacing", I wasn't talking about combat at all, but about the author's intention of affecting the overall flow of the story in ways that I find, frankly, counter-productive to the craft of good adventure writing meant to be effectively run by other people.

As an analogy, consider the difference between a brilliant composer writing a score that is then conducted and played by an orchestra, versus the laying down of some interesting melody, rhythm, etc. that is meant to be interpreted in an improv jazz session. The writer likes to think of himself as an artist. If he's brilliant, maybe he is. But if he's trying to sell me some bits to lead and improv session around, then I expect his artistic intentions to take a back seat to his craft, or I expect his brilliance to merge the art with the craft, or ... I expect to ignore his work as substandard to its basic purpose.

Or put another way, a guy that can't get the craft right providing "guidance" on pacing is wasting his time, because I don't think a guy writing a railroad, for example, has any useful thing to say to me on pacing.

 

[Garthanos]

Just simply knowing this option looks cool to me, or that one looks like a stinker is easy enough.

For you or me... but the newbie player/DM shrug... they have been dropped to the wolves.

 

[Bedrockgames]

For you or me... but the newbie player shrug... they have been dropped to the wolves.

Newbies will be fine

 

[DEFCON 1]

Ah, well, the point IMHO is make a single strong game with clear goals. DDN is a giant muddle of "be everything to everyone", and the question is will anyone end up with something they prefer? No doubt SOMEONE will, but is this exercise really worth doing? Might for instance WotC be better off to just sell reprints of 1e stuff and 2e stuff, etc and maybe even potentially put out some revisions/supplements of the most popular stuff? Why for instance end support forever for games like 3e and 4e which clearly have active fan bases and try to insist that they have to play some variation of DDN that is a compromise solution they still have to figure out how to customize to their preferences, a job they are ill-equipped for?

Really Abdul? You serious? Do you honestly believe WotC would make NEARLY the amount of money just producing more 3E and 4E supplements than they will from an entirely new game? Because that's EXACTLY the reason why they *are* making 5E. Because most other gamers aren't like you, and will buy the new game simply because it's a new game. And buying new games is cool and fun.

And if WotC's lucky... we'll buy the new game AND then find out that we can craft a hybrid of 3E and 4E that takes the parts of 3E we like plus the parts of 4E we like AND that we can use our old modules from both editions we own and adapt them to this new hybrid game we are playing fairly easily. Thus all that old material we still have stored can get used again. Or we can now go onto RPGNow and buy all those old AD&D modules and then adapt and use THOSE in our new hybrid game.

Because I think that is indeed their plan. And yes, someone will buy it. Many someones, in fact. Indeed, many more someones than the someone who would buy a "new" 3.5 Player's Handbook IV.

 

[I'm A Banana]

I think this is part of the reason it's not being called "5e," honestly.

The idea is that there's a such game as D&D, and the basic version of next is its most pure distillation. I wouldn't be shocked if the "basic" version is the version they mostly assume as core, meaning, for most things, they won't assume you're using Standard-level anything (though they might for certain modules -- a particular adventure designed for the Advanced system that toys with magic assumptions or something).

 

[Garthanos]

never mind.

 

[AbdulAlhazred]

Really Abdul? You serious? Do you honestly believe WotC would make NEARLY the amount of money just producing more 3E and 4E supplements than they will from an entirely new game? Because that's EXACTLY the reason why they *are* making 5E. Because most other gamers aren't like you, and will buy the new game simply because it's a new game. And buying new games is cool and fun.

And if WotC's lucky... we'll buy the new game AND then find out that we can craft a hybrid of 3E and 4E that takes the parts of 3E we like plus the parts of 4E we like AND that we can use our old modules from both editions we own and adapt them to this new hybrid game we are playing fairly easily. Thus all that old material we still have stored can get used again. Or we can now go onto RPGNow and buy all those old AD&D modules and then adapt and use THOSE in our new hybrid game.

Because I think that is indeed their plan. And yes, someone will buy it. Many someones, in fact. Indeed, many more someones than the someone who would buy a "new" 3.5 Player's Handbook IV.

OK, well, frankly, DDN as it is now and is likely to be in whatever it is, a year, when it is finalized, doesn't even strike me as a good starting point to make a game similar to 4e. It certainly isn't as good a starting point for that as 4e is now, so I don't really understand what the point of DDN IS from my perspective. And yes, it seems like rather a muddle to me. There are some decent ideas, but where is this going?

 

[Iosue]

OK, well, frankly, DDN as it is now and is likely to be in whatever it is, a year, when it is finalized, doesn't even strike me as a good starting point to make a game similar to 4e. It certainly isn't as good a starting point for that as 4e is now, so I don't really understand what the point of DDN IS from my perspective. And yes, it seems like rather a muddle to me. There are some decent ideas, but where is this going?

I've mentioned this before, but it seems to me that DDN is being designed to complement all other editions, not replace them.

Heretofore, the basic WotC model has been "New edition totally replaces old edition", without even easy conversion. I'm not exactly sure why they chose that model, except that perhaps they thought people would happily buy an entire new library of core rules, splats, and adventures, and that would make them the most money. But 5e is not about that. They have the reprints now of every major edition save Classic D&D, and something's probably coming out there. They've re-released their entire library of PDFs, and are going to be reprinting certain historical products. WotC is essentially allowing, nay, encouraging every other edition to compete with the new one.

If 5e were a total stand-alone edition, a la 3e or 4e, this would be pretty stupid from a business standpoint. But 5e is not being designed like that. Nor is it being designed to re-create older editions (which I gather some people were expecting). Instead, it's being designed to flexibly emulate different editions, and permutations thereof. And what this does is allow them to maximize the potential of their entire product history.

So let's say you're a fan of B/X. WotC can come out with pdfs for you, but if their only new product is 4e adventures, you're SOL unless you really like extensive conversions. But now they come out with Next. Next can be configured to run a very rules-light, B/X-like game. They can create adventures for that, with a much lighter conversion load to B/X, and then sell that to players of both Next and B/X.

It's harder to see with, say, 4e because the game is far from finished. But conceivably they could put out an adventure that designed around a granular tactical combat module, characters with more healing options and HP. And such an adventure might appeal to those who've made the jump to Next, but also quite easily be converted to 4e. So even if a 4e fan has no desire to switch over to Next, his preferred edition is still getting support.

And in the meantime, by flipping some switches and adjusting some dials, a Next group that prefers a 4e-ish type game can take that B/X style adventure and use it for their group. The B/X-style Next players can take the 4e-style adventure and use it in their group. Essentially Next gives them an adjustable benchmark for which they can create products used by a variety of players of different editions. PDFs and print-on-demand lets them provide older product without costly overhead. Webtools allow them to provide easy-access conversion rules. They can build on the Monster Builder to create a creature converter that lets you take a Basic monster and turn them into a monster that better fits Standard or Advanced rules, or vice versa. Next and their online tools suite allows them to support all editions in a way that was never before possible.