Will there ever be new editions of the major systems?

[djotaku]

Programming analogy: Python has said there will never be a Python 4. Attempt at Perl 5->6 killed Perl.

Super hero analogy: Throughout the 30s-50s the big companies (Marvel/DC) kept adding new heroes and villains. But now we're stuck with the same old heroes. (How many times will we get Batman's origin story!)

Video game systems analogy: The years between versions is increasing and it even seems that, with backwards compatibility meaning we don't need to keep rebuying the same games, we seem to be reaching a point of no new PS6 or next Xbox that is a siginicant leap in capabilities.

Looking back over Pathfinder, Starfinder, and D&D it seems that on average we get a new system every 10 years. But, just as with the programming languages, each new version creates a rift. You need a critical mass of folks to come over. Some folks always get left behind (there are still many - or at least a vocal minority - playing Pathfinder 1e or D&D 3.5 or even D&D 4e, surprisingly based on how people talk about that version) If it was going to happen for D&D, it should have happened instead of 5.5e/5e.2024. On Paizo's side, since they sell adventure paths AND all their rules are free on Nethys - they don't need a new edition to make money by selling another set of core rulebooks.

So, like the above non-TTRPG examples - do you think we've reached a point where the major systems have calcified? And if we want new game mechanics we look to Draw Steel and Daggerheart and Nimble and so forth?

 

[HatWearingFool]

The thing is, yes you lose some players when you update systems because they don’t want to lose the use of all the material,they’ve invested in but you also gain new players who were put off by the shear volume of material for the previous version.

D&D usually gets a big bump in sales with a new version for this reason. New versions are good on-boarding points for new customers.

Usually sales for a version slow down over time and when they get low enough a new version magically appears

 

[Voadam]

So, like the above non-TTRPG examples - do you think we've reached a point where the major systems have calcified?

Calcified compared to what?

Early 5e for the first ten years had mostly Tasha's and Xanathar's as new rules development after start then not much besides little things in setting books until 24 core. We are getting a little with expanded backgrounds and feats in the 24 FR and Eberron setting books, but not really a bunch of rules development/expansion innovation. I expect a lot of 24 5e rules development to mostly follow 14 patterns with a WotC focus on big adventures and one off settings with the occasional other things like monster books and not much focus on rules.

Pathfinder 2e is sort of in the same boat having just redone their 2e core to drop OGL srd stuff.

AD&D stuff went for a long time, 1e and 2e were fairly similar to 3e and 3.5 as far as changes and compatibility, and AD&D went on for more than two decades.

 

[djotaku]

All fair points. Do you really see PF2e removal of OGL as equivalent to 5e2014 v 5e2024? (No accusatory, just curious) It seems as though the D&D one was more dramatic of a change?

 

[The Soloist]

As said above, Traveller, Runequest and Call of Cthuluh had few changes since inception. Their new editions is to welcome new players into the fold.

 

[Parmandur]

As said above, Traveller, Runequest and Call of Cthuluh had few changes since inception. Their new editions is to welcome new players into the fold.

We can go a step farther: while new variants do get released, Backgammon and Chess are fairly stable at this point. I thinkt he Crearice Commons release of D&D makes wild change to D&D-as-D&D sociological improbable.

 

[Gradine]

Feels like we're due for a new Fate sometime relatively soon. YMMV but I still don't think they've gotten that where it needs to be

 

[Reynard]

Programming analogy: Python has said there will never be a Python 4. Attempt at Perl 5->6 killed Perl.

Super hero analogy: Throughout the 30s-50s the big companies (Marvel/DC) kept adding new heroes and villains. But now we're stuck with the same old heroes. (How many times will we get Batman's origin story!)

Video game systems analogy: The years between versions is increasing and it even seems that, with backwards compatibility meaning we don't need to keep rebuying the same games, we seem to be reaching a point of no new PS6 or next Xbox that is a siginicant leap in capabilities.

Looking back over Pathfinder, Starfinder, and D&D it seems that on average we get a new system every 10 years. But, just as with the programming languages, each new version creates a rift. You need a critical mass of folks to come over. Some folks always get left behind (there are still many - or at least a vocal minority - playing Pathfinder 1e or D&D 3.5 or even D&D 4e, surprisingly based on how people talk about that version) If it was going to happen for D&D, it should have happened instead of 5.5e/5e.2024. On Paizo's side, since they sell adventure paths AND all their rules are free on Nethys - they don't need a new edition to make money by selling another set of core rulebooks.

So, like the above non-TTRPG examples - do you think we've reached a point where the major systems have calcified? And if we want new game mechanics we look to Draw Steel and Daggerheart and Nimble and so forth?

I personally do not buy that 5E is a forever edition of D&D. I think we will see a "proper" 6E with 5 years as the "5E generation" ages out and moves on and WotC needs something new.

That said, some games have avoided big shifts in editions. Most famous is Csll of Cthulhu, but also Savage Worlds has been mostly incremental. So it is possible 5E D&D sort of "found it" and only incremental changes are necessary to keep the game commercially viable.

I hope not because 2024 is s real downgrade and generally speaking 10 years with any edition is too much for me.

 

[Aldarc]

Feels like we're due for a new Fate sometime relatively soon. YMMV but I still don't think they've gotten that where it needs to be

Hard to say. They updated it slightly with Fate Condensed. Fred Hicks also said that Forged in the Dark outsells Fate, which is also why there hasn't been too much Fate from Evil Hat Games as of late. (The only thing that comes to mind is turning Masters of Umdaar into a bigger game.)

 

[Koloth]

Short answer, Yes I expect there will be new versions.
Depending on how you count D&D versions, there is a new one on average every 6.25 years. The 10 years between 5E and 5E-2024 is on the long side historically.
I consider the ORC version of PF2 to be a new version. Even if not a major functional revision, being free of further Hasbro legal entanglements is a big deal.
Traveller is rather convoluted. Many versions, often overlapping, from multiple companies. Including the new D&D 5E engine version recently announced here.
GURPS is an outlier. Version 4 is starting year 22.
But Munchkin is apparently getting a version 2 even after fairly recent "No, there will never be a version 2" statements.

So the best rule is assume there will be new versions. At least for most games.