Will we see more third party products to add depth to monsters outside combat?

[zoroaster100]

After reading the pit fiend entry I have mixed feelings about it. On the one hand, it does seem easier to use in combat and like it might feel more "special" and unique in combat as compared to other monsters of the same level. But it does seem rather 2 dimensional with no abilities for use outside combat given that it is supposed to be a mastermind villain behind massive evil plots of corruption and deception. It is hinted that it can grant a wish every 99 years, but that hardly seems sufficient to compensate.

This made me wonder, will we see third party publishers trying to fill the gap by writing appropriate non-combat abilities for monsters in the Monster Manual, such as appropriate rituals or other abilities that each type of monster should have at their command? DM's could simply make these up, of course, but DM's can make up anything. The point of D&D products is to save DM's time by doing the DM's work for him, or by improving the DM's work by suggesting creative ideas that the DM might not have thought of on his own.

 

[Ruin Explorer]

I believe the answer is: "Of course, duh."

I mean, if people will buy it (and clearly you would buy it, and probably me too, if it was well-reviewed/written by a non-eejit), then someone will make it. The only real question is when it would come out, what it would contain, and how well-written it would be.

I'd be kind of suprised if WotC didn't fairly rapidly start adding this sort of stuff itself, probably in the DDI/Dragon.

 

[Wormwood]

I expect the MM entries for many monsters will include both adventure hooks and 'ecology' information.

That's generally all I need to get an encounter going. More than I need, actually.

 

[Ruin Explorer]

I expect the MM entries for many monsters will include both adventure hooks and 'ecology' information.

That's generally all I need to get an encounter going. More than I need, actually.

I think you've missed the point of this thread, which is about non-combat abilities, rather than simple adventure hooks etc. Like, it'd be nice to see the mechanisms behind various legendary devilish and demonic abilities, for example.

 

[Wormwood]

I think you've missed the point of this thread, which is about non-combat abilities, rather than simple adventure hooks etc. Like, it'd be nice to see the mechanisms behind various legendary devilish and demonic abilities, for example.

Ah.

4e might use SW:SE skill system, meaning I don't really *need* anything along the lines of non-combat skills.

Aside from that, I guess I don't understand the purpose of magical abilities that don't interract with the PCs.

edit: the above statement may sound snarky, but is 100% serious. I honestly don't get it.

edit #2: to clarify, knowing how a pit fiend command lesser demons doesn;t strike me as important as simply knowing that he does.

 

[Lackhand]

In answer to your question: I, too, would seriously consider laying down smackers on a book which seriously delivered on your OP. So, yeah, there's at least some market for it, I'm sure we'll get quality commensurate with its size.

I still hold out fond (but probably to-be-disappointed) hope that we'll get this kind of information in the DMG. In the chapter on encounter guidelines, (which in my fantasy is much beefed up), in the subchapter on forest encounters, it goes into the suite of abilities to give a monster or group of monsters to make them a hag covey, a fey lord, or a swamp thing.
In the subchapter on devils, it goes into how to make them lords of a town, graveyard commanders, or heretical cults.

These are sort of templates, and sort of just adventure design guidelines; maybe the swamp thing template is

The creature to which this is applied is a mighty force of defense for the fens. It is known to be able to make the muddy waters of its home territory more impassible, creating the following few types of effects (exotic forms of vegetation, special difficult terrain rules, poisonous plant traps). It also frequenty summons (creatures from the surrounding area under its level, or drawn from the following list) to its aid, and may create (shambling mounds, oozes, again under level or from a list) at a rate of one per day, limited only by the needs of the adventure and the whim of the fengods.
In combat, the swamp thing may give all its commanded troops within 25 feet a +5 enhancement bonus to hide as the very surroundings warp to keep them hidden from prying eyes.

That sorta thing.

 

[Cam Banks]

Aside from that, I guess I don't understand the purpose of magical abilities that don't interract with the PCs.

edit: the above statement may sound snarky, but is 100% serious. I honestly don't get it.

edit #2: to clarify, knowing how a pit fiend command lesser demons doesn;t strike me as important as simply knowing that he does.

This is a very important point. The rules exist for the most part to enable the players to interact with the world the Dungeon Master is presenting. There's zero point in having rules created simply to let the DM sit behind his screen and cackle with glee at the amazing and fantastic things his NPCs are doing to each other.

It's like watching a modern day cop movie that takes place against a backdrop of New York City. You, the audience, don't need to see what's happening three streets away to an Hispanic couple and their two kids calling the cops to report a missing dog. Sure, the NYPD is involved, but unless the hero (who is there to provide the audience with their focus) interacts in some way with this couple and their missing dog, that's just useless information.

Cheers,
Cam

 

[Cadfan]

Anything that grognards complain about on the 4e forums has a good chance of getting a book fleshing it out. Even if the majority of gamers don't really need or want the material, and WOTC doesn't feel the need to provide it, there are enough grognards to provide profitability for a 3rd party publisher.

 

[WyzardWhately]

The old Slayer's Guides were pretty badass. Three or four of those would probably polish up one's home campaign considerably. So, here's hoping.

 

[zoroaster100]

That swamp thing template stuff is along the lines of what I was thinking, with more crunch thrown in such as actual traps, terrain, etc. It stimulates the creative juices when planning an adventure involving the monster, even though the actual stats of the monster during combat are not impacted. It suggests minions, traps, encounter terrain, etc. to use for the monster or its allies, providing flavorful explanations for same. It is not essential, but I would find it helpful. It would be nice if WOTC provided this, but if it doesn't, it would be nice to have it available from elsewhere.