Will you use Malhavoc's alternate classes in your campaign?
Glyfair
Explorer
The results look interesting. So far Monte's (and Bruce's) are winning by a significant margin. Unfortunately, this can't be considered an unbiased sample (even less than usual for a webpoll) because most people clicking on the thread are likely already buying Monte's stuff for the alternate classes. Still, it seems there is a strong showing for the updated classes.
I wonder what other classes he's thinking about updating. Will he someday do the druid? Seems about the only other official class that is in need of an update. I don't think any divine books are in his current publishing schedule.
Glyfair of Glamis
I wonder what other classes he's thinking about updating. Will he someday do the druid? Seems about the only other official class that is in need of an update. I don't think any divine books are in his current publishing schedule.
Glyfair of Glamis
Ialdabode
First Post
I'm still uncertain about the bard and sorcerer, as I don't have BoEMII (I prefer PRINT books, not .pdfs). The ranger and psion (okay, I don't have the book it's in yet, but what I've read makes sense, and come April when it's out in print form I'll be getting it) make too much sense not to use.
Personally, though, I kind of like the sorcerer as it is. The bard just needs a little tweaking, not a total overhaul.
Personally, though, I kind of like the sorcerer as it is. The bard just needs a little tweaking, not a total overhaul.
Crothian
First Post
I think one of the reasons that Brune's and Monte's a re winning is because they are more powerful versions. I don't use Monte's Ranger for that reason.
However, the Sorcerer and the Bard are really changed classes. After looking over the Sorcerer spell list, I like what Monte did. THe Bard is a really nice change with combining the music and the magic. I think it'd be real easy to use Monte's bard to represent all bards: be they Celtic, Norse, or what have you.
I'm not big on psionics, so I'm not sure of the new Psion. But the one guy who really likes psionics really likes the class, so I voted for it.
However, the Sorcerer and the Bard are really changed classes. After looking over the Sorcerer spell list, I like what Monte did. THe Bard is a really nice change with combining the music and the magic. I think it'd be real easy to use Monte's bard to represent all bards: be they Celtic, Norse, or what have you.
I'm not big on psionics, so I'm not sure of the new Psion. But the one guy who really likes psionics really likes the class, so I voted for it.
el-remmen
Moderator Emeritus
What was wrong with the bard as it was?
The only change I have made to the Bard in the Aquerra book is requiring them to learn spells like a wizard does through use of the perform skill.
The only change I made to the ranger in Aquerra was added a "bow feat" option to replace the two-weapon fighting if the player chooses - and adding a favored terrain option.
The only change I have made to the Bard in the Aquerra book is requiring them to learn spells like a wizard does through use of the perform skill.
The only change I made to the ranger in Aquerra was added a "bow feat" option to replace the two-weapon fighting if the player chooses - and adding a favored terrain option.
drnuncheon
Explorer
nemmerle said:
I don't think there is anything wrong with the PHB bard. On the other hand, the BOEM2 bard definitely has more of a 'music-magic' feel. If that's important to you then the new bard is probably better.
J
I got confused by the poll. The title of the post implies that the votes were for the alt classes so I skipped the PHB ones that I would have voted for because I wasn't paying close attention. Oops!
I think Monte's ranger is really overpowered. He gains too much and loses too little, making him very close to a jack-of-all-trades and master of some. That's a problem to me. Switching to d8 hit points and losing two virtual feats of rather dubious value is a very minor drawback compared to what they get in exchange. The bonus feats are the main problem. It makes fighters very unattractive in comparison. Some possible tweaks:
1. Remove them entirely
2. Make them much less frequent, like every 5 levels as per wizards.
3. Remove all of the combat feats from the list, and instead have things like endurance, run, alertness, etc. Why does a ranger get combat bonus feats and not these more thematically appropriate feats instead?
That said, I don't think the PHB ranger class was fundamentally unbalanced from a rules perspective, and many of the non-rules problems that people seem to complain about aren't really addressed.
I think Monte's ranger is really overpowered. He gains too much and loses too little, making him very close to a jack-of-all-trades and master of some. That's a problem to me. Switching to d8 hit points and losing two virtual feats of rather dubious value is a very minor drawback compared to what they get in exchange. The bonus feats are the main problem. It makes fighters very unattractive in comparison. Some possible tweaks:
1. Remove them entirely
2. Make them much less frequent, like every 5 levels as per wizards.
3. Remove all of the combat feats from the list, and instead have things like endurance, run, alertness, etc. Why does a ranger get combat bonus feats and not these more thematically appropriate feats instead?
That said, I don't think the PHB ranger class was fundamentally unbalanced from a rules perspective, and many of the non-rules problems that people seem to complain about aren't really addressed.
drnuncheon
Explorer
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