Winterhaven is the new Keep on the Borderlands?

[Irda Ranger]

Any comment on the population issue, Mr. Mearls? Are the Winterhaven farms supposed to spread out into the wilderness near the Kobold lair, etc.?

I have always assumed that the original Keep was much larger than presented. I look at the map in the module more as the "points of interest", and that the town inside the walls is actually large enough to be minimally self-sufficient and that the Keep was large enough to actually support the number of troops necessary to secure a frontier such as the Keep was expected to do.

When WotC's maps and purported census data don't match up (which is often; see also, Eberron), I just treat both maps and census data as "inspiration" for the campaign I wanted to run anyway. There's no right answer.

 

[Hussar]

I agree Irda Ranger.

I look at it like this. Take the movie A Fistful of Dollars. Now there's a PoL setting in spades. If you watch the movie though, you probably see maybe one or two farms and that's it. Why? Because the farms are completely unimportant to the movie.

The same goes for the outlying farms. We know they're there, because it makes sense that they are. But, you don't need to detail them because, well, why bother?

 

[Celebrim]

I thought we already knew this? Didn't someone already spoil that Keep on the Shadowlands was inspired by Keep on the Borderlands?

Well, if you didn't, take a look at the list of monsters found in the dungeon. With some adjustments for 4e play, its almost identical to the list of creatures in the kobold, goblin, hobgoblin, and temple sections of the original Caves of Chaos. I'd say more about the list, but I don't want to give out spoilers to those who haven't played B2. It's not the full caves (based on the orc preview most of them would be too tough for low level characters now) but it is definately inspired by them.

 

[malraux]

The other thing to consider is that the Keep is likely the fallback location for the population rather than the permanent residence. Farms and houses on the outside, but when the orc raiders show up, the town head behind the walls and hope that heros arrive before the walls fail or the food runs out.

 

[hbarsquared]

Wow, I am completely surprised by how many people expect the 977 people of Winterhaven to have homes within the walls of the Keep.

Towns of the middle ages (a PoL if there ever was one) might consist of a centralized town square (possibly with the fort/castle/whatever), with farms scattered out for miles in all directions. Farmers only came into town to trade their goods, probably only once or twice a week.

Whoever sees an "issue" with Winterhaven's population needs to take a rudimentary course in European History.