i didn't know that. Can you give me a cite? I really haven't been able to find anything about secret/concealed doors in the books except for the elves' chance to detect them.
dmg 97
i didn't know that. Can you give me a cite? I really haven't been able to find anything about secret/concealed doors in the books except for the elves' chance to detect them.
More complicated than that: the riddle is not hidden in a single spot on the floor. The Player has to have been examining the entirety of the path from the dungeon entrance to the end of that hall. They don't get to spot the riddle if they just search the "B" area; it's only if they have been searching from the entrance to the "B" area that the DM is to reveal this clue.It is hidden on the floor at the end of a pit-filled 130 foot long corridor, and the corridor is filled with distracting stuff.
More complicated than that: the riddle is not hidden in a single spot on the floor. The Player has to have been examining the entirety of the path from the dungeon entrance to the end of that hall. They don't get to spot the riddle if they just search the "B" area; it's only if they have been searching from the entrance to the "B" area that the DM is to reveal this clue.
If a Player says he's examining the path and gets nothing for the search along the first 10 feet, 20 feet, 50 feet, 100 feet!, etc. and gives up, they get no clue. How many times does a DM say, "You don't notice anything special about the path," before a Player gives up? The Player has no reason to think there is a clue hidden in that particular decoration. Maybe the DM says, "You don't notice anything special about the path, yet"?
This is a situation where arguably ridiculous, blind, unencouraged persistence pays off. Of the Players who stuck with their examination this long, how many continued to search the rest of the Tomb with this much persistence? How long did the adventure take? Are there still adventurers inside the tomb examining every inch of the interior looking for another hidden clue? Why wouldn't the Players think more clues could be found by just sticking to a search long enough?
Bullgrit
And that can cause a problem with a scenario that is specifically to test/challenge/put in their place the Players. How many Players failed this adventure because of the DM? How many succeeded because of the DM?As is often the case, a lot is left up to the DM.
This module really could use a good editor to organize how the information is presented better.
The only group I know which made it through the tomb successfully did so by casting locate object on their own gear after it was stripped from them by one of the teleports and then using stone shape to tunnel their way to it. (They had already picked up all the keys through cleverness and persistence.)Some general reactions to the ToH discussions to date:
- many folks seem to be approaching the ToH through the lens of physical exploration vs. using divination and scouting magics: augury, find the path, locate object, divination, find traps, clairvoyance, and wizard eye (among many others) would likely be assumed to be in full-force after at least one or two disastrous initial forays into the false entrances and the initial tomb corridor (assuming that they didn't result in TPKs, of course); demi-human trap/stone detections are also useful here, though probably less reliabl
When my DM ran it for us, he did a light re-design which included specifically yanking out boxed text so that it would be easy to read descriptions without either (a) skipping something important or (b) accidentally revealing something which shouldn't be revealed:
Justin Alexander - Tomb of Horrors