Wish/Ltd Wish & Class Skills.......

[Darmanicus]

Couldn't fit this on me previous thread..........

I don't want to have to take a level in Rogue just to gain access to the Use Magic Device skill, which I think a mage should get anyway. How about the use of a Wish/Ltd Wish in order to gain it and possibly having to sacrifice one of your own class skills?

 

[jgsugden]

Couldn't fit this on me previous thread..........

I don't want to have to take a level in Rogue just to gain access to the Use Magic Device skill, which I think a mage should get anyway. How about the use of a Wish/Ltd Wish in order to gain it and possibly having to sacrifice one of your own class skills?

This is metagame thinking. The character would never come up with this concept on his own.

One feat I've seen added to many campaigns is a feat that grants a certain skill as a class skill, regardless of the class levels gained. For instance, added skill: use magic device would make use magic device a class skill, regardless of clas.

IMHO, they should have removed UMD as a skill. Instead, they should have made spellcraft a rogue skill and given them the ability to use it like UMD as a rogue special ability. It is one of a few skills that are far too powerful.

 

[dagger]

If you wanted to use a 9th level spell to give your character a class skill, I would let it go. But at that high level, you can have a high enough Use magic Device even at cross class ability anyway. Especially with a synergy bonus.

I dont think it is meta thinking though....

 

[HeavyG]

I don't want to have to take a level in Rogue just to gain access to the Use Magic Device skill

How about a level (or more) of Loremaster ?

which I think a mage should get anyway.

I'd give it to sorcerers, but not to wizards. They derive their magic from study, yet do not study clerical magic and so on.



[Edit]Which contradicts and/or is contradicted by the fact that Loremasters get the skill, now that I think about it.[/edit]

 

[Ankh-Morpork Guard]

I don't want to have to take a level in Rogue just to gain access to the Use Magic Device skill

You don't have to in 3.5. There are no restricted skills, so you can just buy cross-class ranks. Only thing to that, is the DCs for UMD are so high that it'll take you a loooong time to get it up high enough to do anything.

 

[Saeviomagy]

This is metagame thinking. The character would never come up with this concept on his own.

Que?

I wish I could learn to use magical items without necessarily knowing how they work - and I'd like to not have to sacrifice my study of spells to do it.

How's that metagaming?

 

[jgsugden]

I wish I could learn to use magical items without necessarily knowing how they work - and I'd like to not have to sacrifice my study of spells to do it.

How's that metagaming?

Because a wizard *can* learn to blindly use magical items while focusing his studies on spellcasting. He just isn'ty as good at doing it as someone who focuses on it. In other words, he does it as a cross class skill.

When a spellcaster casts a wish, they should not directly refer to D&D rules. That, by definition, is metagaming. They should instear speak conceptually. Instead of saying 'I wish to make use magic device a class skill', they should say something like 'I wish I was better at using magical devices'. Then, the DM can find a balanced way to fulfill that wish.

If rubbing your 'lamp' made a wish fulfilling genie pop out and you decided that you wanted to be the best pianist in the world, would you ask the genie to make perform: piano a class skill?

Wish has been so abused in the past that it is hard to think of it in nonmetagame ways.

Wishing to change a game dynamic, like a skill list, is metagaming. Players need to phrase their wishes without using game mechanics.

 

[Li Shenron]

Why all these problems with metagaming? I think he was asking from a perspective of a balanced use of wish.

Anyway, I agree that metagaming is not nice, but can't the character wish "I wish it would be always easy for me to learn using magic devices as it is for a Rogue"?

From the balance point of view, it is always quite difficult to judge what a Wish spell could do. You have to spend 5000Xp or the equivalent in GP to cast the Wish, and it is indeed something that shoould be able to give a good reward. I don't think it would be too much to grant a cross-class skill to become a class skill for this cost. There is much less embarass in 3.5 since there are no exclusive skill, so if I were your DM I would let you do so.

 

[Dimwhit]

I like the feats that make a cross-class skill a class skill, though I don't think Wizards has a core feat like that. Kalamar has one, Skill Prodigy, I think. Take a number of cross-class skill equal to your INT modifier and make them a class skill.

I think that's the solution. It should cost something, and a feat (especially for a Wizard) is a good price to pay.

 

[Spatzimaus]

Not a chance.

Turning a normal cross-class skill into a class skill is a Feat-level ability (see Cosmopolitan, FRCS, and that doesn't work on exclusive skills but gives a +2 bonus). There's a whole big discussion on whether you can use a Wish to gain a Feat. Personally, I say no. And that's just for a normal skill, you're asking about one of the most powerful single skills, which in 3E was exclusive to two classes.

Also, thematically it doesn't make sense for Wizards to get the ability. Bards, yes, Sorcerers, maybe.

So, your options:
1> Take a Feat like Cosmopolitan that makes it a class skill (only works in 3.5E)
2> Buy a lot of cross-class skill ranks (only works in 3.5E)
3> Take a Prestige Class that has it as a class skill (Loremaster, for example)