Wishes & Perversions - Post Yours

[Marius Delphus]

I think there may be something about the god granting the miracle knowing what you mean, so following the spirit of the wish rather than its letter (if you don't ask for too much). I can imagine Olidammara playing a prank at one of his own worshippers, if it will not kill such a valuable tool, but I can hardly imagine that from Mr. Pelor.

Well put, and I certainly agree. As I tend to think of wish and miracle as almost perfectly interchangeable (I have not had a miracle cast in a game as yet), I often forget about this very important difference between the two spells.

So when parsing a miracle, would it be appropriate for a DM to "tweak" the response to emphasize the granting deity's ethos? Would Olidammara always play some kind of prank? Would Pelor always find a way to sneak in some "goodness and light"? Opinions welcome.

 

[jmucchiello]

This thread illustrates why I, as a player, always refuse any wishes offered to me unless I really trust the DM. This always shocks the other players and DM ("What do you wish for?" -- "No thanks. I don't want the wish"), but I see no need to waste time playing semantics with the DM only to have him screw me anyway.

I've never understood the screw the players school of wishing. I mean. Why put the players in a position to find a wish bearing item or entity if you are just going to twist anything they say. In our group we know better than to do this because we rotate DMs to often. A wish either works as intended or fails completely in our group. We make the assumption that the universe knows what the wisher means when it attempts to grant the wish.

Afterall, it is a 9th level spell. No other spell tries to twist your meaning. You don't launch a fireball and see it whip around in a circle and land at your feet just because you are using a 3rd level spell to kill someone outright. Why should a 9th level spell twist your words when you use it to kill someone outright?

Of course, the 5 year penalty in 1st and 2nd was much more harsh than the 5,000 xps in 3rd ed. But then 3rd ed also explicitly disallows the outright slaughter of an enemy so it balances.

 

[seasong]

Originally posted by jmucchiello
I've never understood the screw the players school of wishing. I mean. Why put the players in a position to find a wish bearing item or entity if you are just going to twist anything they say.

Actually, I tend to feel that it depends a great deal on the source of the wish. The 3rd Edition Wish seems to me to simply be a metamagical method of turning the wizard's will into the appropriate spells. I wouldn't twist it, I'd just use the (very) harsh limits already imposed in the PHB/DMG.

On the other hand, my efreet example shows exactly why it got twisted - the source was a malicious efreet. And it didn't really screw the players... it just didn't achieve everything they thought it would.

And the fey example, well, she trusted an Evil Unseelie Fairee.

On a third tentacle, I've had plenty of wishes go well - usually because the character made an appropriate wish in consideration of the source of the wish.

For example, having helped the Sphinx recover her joy in the game of riddles after a near decade of slowly encroaching boredom, the party was offered a wish (a service to be performed by the Sphinx). They humbly requested that the Sphinx aid them in their personal journeys to find spirit guides, and so she did. Had they wished for something like "the death of the Sphinx", the only deaths would be their own.

 

[Sammael99]

I just wanted to say I thank all you guys for straightening my mind about wishes in my campaign. Not that we're anywhere near a character level where the "Wish" spell will become a reality, but I have decided that the "Wish" spell will only ever grant one of the options listed in the bullet list of the spell on the SRD and no other option. Miracle might do more according to the deity's wishes.

On the other hand, effreet wishes, etc. could be more powerful. But in that case you WILL want to word it very carefully. In other words, a wish where wording is important will always be granted by someone, benevolent or malevolent in my campaign.

Lots of great examples too. Great stuff !

 

[Andrew D. Gable]

From my current (Greyhawk, now Planescape) campaign:

In a previous campaign (during RttToEE), the PCs started a thriving inn. Fast forward to them in Sigil...

PC #1: This town is really big and cool. I bet our inn would do great here.
PC #2: I use a wish spell and wish that a copy of our inn was right here, right now.

So a copy of the inn falls onto the PCs heads.

 

[Plane Sailing]

I think that the source of a wish is key.

IMC, if a PC spent the 5000xp to cast a wish, I'd do my best to make it work out right (I don't have any idiots amongst my friends!). At 17th+ level 5000xps is a LOT of bad guys.

Wishes from rings, from powerful outsiders - the PC's don't have a "cost" to these, so they had better be careful... but if they wish for something basically within the spells normal capability, that is fine, I'd do it - although from an eeeevil creature there will probably be repercussions (why was it granting them a wish in the first place??)

Cheers

 

[LostSoul]

PC #2: I use a wish spell and wish that a copy of our inn was right here, right now.

So a copy of the inn falls onto the PCs heads.

Wouldn't that mean that the inn was "up there, right now"?

Anyways, I like to think of the wish spell (as someone else said) as a 9th level spell, no more.

 

[Beckett]

I've never understood the screw the players school of wishing. I mean. Why put the players in a position to find a wish bearing item or entity if you are just going to twist anything they say. In our group we know better than to do this because we rotate DMs to often. A wish either works as intended or fails completely in our group. We make the assumption that the universe knows what the wisher means when it attempts to grant the wish.

I don't think a Wish should always be used to screw the player; it depends on the Wish. Selfless wishes and reasonable wishes should work fine. Frex, a Wish to extinguish a fire destroying the town, to heal the pary, or to know the way to Mulberry Street should work without a problem.

Greedy wishes, on the other hand, are fair game for screwing. Wishing for a +5 Battlecrusier or an indestructible tower of gold is imo deserving of screwing.

 

[Saeviomagy]

I think, that if you CAST wish, then what happens is exactly what you want to happen, or it doesn't work if it is beyond the limits of the spell. At the very least, a wish beyond the limits of the spell should elicit the response "there will be dire consequences if you go ahead with that wish". That would apply even casting wish from a scroll, or ring or whatever. It's still not like you're giving them something for nothing - you gave them it, it's your job to make them work for it.

However, if someone casts wish FOR you, then the effect is whatever they dream up. If the source is an evil creature, or the wish is against their (pardon me) wishes, then things are likely to go awry. Players who go around asking favours from evil creatures, or forcing powerful creatures to do things against their will are asking for trouble.

 

[Savage Wombat]

I always use the "conservation of energy" rule when dealing with Wishes. (Except when malicious efreeti are involved - that's different.) This was in an old Dragon way back when...

Basically, think of the Wish as an entity - especially appropriate when using supernatural agencies - who wants to accomplish your stated goal in the most efficient manner possible. So he won't use a 9th level spell effect when a 6th level will do.

It's easier to steal gold or magic items than it is to create them.

It's easier to cast spells on the Wisher - because he's here - than it is to go find the intended target.

And, of course, it's easier to find a loophole that lets you get out of doing the task. "I wish to be the strongest man in the world" simply gets met by a 24x Empowered Bull's Strength - you've got about a day to enjoy it.

But this also means that, sometimes, it's easier to give the Wisher what he wants, because the clever idea you had to screw him is actually more labor intensive than the original wish. Keep this in mind.