Wishes & Skills

[Hecateus]

Is this right? I thought it only counted as a class skill when adding a level of that particular class.

Oops nope, just reread that section. I am wrong. I dunno where got that idea????

 

[jgsugden]

There is not a correct answer to this question. Wish is too vague to give us much guidance on issues like these.

I strongly urge DMs *not* to allow wish to grant permanent abilities, feats or skill bonuses. A high level wizard that is allowed to do these types of things is best off staying at 17th level and spending his experience on wishes instead of gaining more levels. Under the 3.5/FRCS experience system, that character can easily catch up in experience after spending a bunch on wishes.

I do not say this to 'screw' players. I say this because excessive wishes unbalance the game, make PCs too powerful for their level and tend to make the game so unblanaced that it is less fun, especially fro players that can not go 'wish happy'.

If you feel like characters should be able to gain permanent abilities with wishes, I suggest setting a limit on how many abilities can be gained. I'd keep the limit very low. I'd perhaps allow a total of about 5 permanent bonuses to be applied to a character: Perhaps a total of +5 inherent bonus to one attribute. Perhaps 3 feats and a +2 inherent bonus to one attribute. Perhaps a+1 inherent bonus to 5 different attributes. If the permanent ability is very weak, you might count it as only 1/2 an ability (ability to speak to goldfish). If it is strong, perhaps it will count for multiple abilities (gaining great cleave as a feat without gaining power attack or cleave first).

If you do decide to grant a wish and it proves too powerful down the road, just remove the ability. The wish spell says that DMs should only partially grant a wish if it is too strong. Having it 'wear off' even though the character wished for the ability permanently is a fine way to partially grant the wish.

 

[Hecateus]

the 3.5 rules for wish don't specifically address getting skills and feats. But they do allow for it; though DMs are strongly encouraged to corrupt/pervert loosly worded wishes which aren't specifically covered.

If properly worded, I would allow skills to be reproduced as if they were feats like 'Self-Sufficient" or Skill Focus. Feats from wishes I would likely not limit at all. My experience has been that wishes are ludicrously rare in the sessions I play...whomever makes them or acquires related items is likely to use them quickly anyway.

If not properly worded, well...I would make use of my wicked imagination as appropriate.

 

[ThirdWizard]

In 3.5 there are no exclusive class skills, so making a cross class skill into a class skill would be okay with me. The wizard wants to get really good at Use Magic Device? Okay, but skill points must still be put into it. I would probably only allow the caster to do this once, however, and any future wishes to make more cross class skills class skills would fail (I'd tell them this up front of course).

 

[Altalazar]

I'd probably allow SOMETHING like that - I agree that one shouldn't go crazy, but then, you always get more for class levels than just a single skill, so it'd be insane for a high level wizard to go for that instead of another level when spending EXP.

If you are worried about balance, you could always make it two-tiered - this could work for any REALLY powerful skills from a wish - wish for the knowledge to attain such a goal - like if you want god-like jumping, wish for the knowledge of how to get it - and then that turns into a nice high-level adventure to attain it. Make it attainable, but require an adventure or two (or five?) to do it.

 

[pawsplay]

If Wishes can grant extra Feats and Skills, that does raise the question of why gods don't grant themselves extra Feats all the time.

 

[Cbas10]

I tend to be a bit wonky with Wishes in my games. First of all, such a spell can automatically accomplish anything specifically listed under the spell description. If a player wants to get something that is NOT on that list, he is walking into unknown territory. Characters using a Wish will ALWAYS get something out of it, regardless of how outlandish the request is. However, the more outlandish the request is (in relation to the "allowed" list in the PHB), the more unpredictable side effects may be. A lot of this has to do with my game's cosmology and "where Wishes come from."

That said;

Wishes for turning a cross-class skill into a class skill? Absolutely. It has relatively little impact on the game or mechanics; it simply lets the character add a little depth to the character.

Wishes for extra feats? Nope. Well, you CAN in my games, just realize that there will be a side effect. Nothing to allow me to be spiteful; rather a side effect that will, at the same time, place some sort of inconvenience on your character AND advance related stories and plotlines.

Wishes for extra skill points? Yes; following the similar rule for allowing up to a +5 enhancement to an ability score, I allow for up to 3 additional skill points per level. They are, of course, not retroactive.

 

[Cbas10]

If Wishes can grant extra Feats and Skills, that does raise the question of why gods don't grant themselves extra Feats all the time.

Well, regardless of what Wishes can or cannot do in a game, such a question raises non-mechanics topics (such as any given cosmology's concepts on conservation of magic, hubris, etc) as well as points out that Gods and other similarly uber-characters with open access to Wishes are still never fully detailed - requiring the DM to finish tailoring the character/God to his or her own setting and adventure.

 

[Altalazar]

If Wishes can grant extra Feats and Skills, that does raise the question of why gods don't grant themselves extra Feats all the time.

Such a thing isn't an issue in my world, since the gods are never seen or heard - they exist on other planes and even at epic levels, still would be out of the picture. Even clerics don't REALLY communicate directly with them - which is why in my world clerical orders are defined 100% by the clerics who are in them. There is no "penalty" for worshipping the wrong way because there is no orthodox way to do so - of course, clerics can certainly keep others out of their order if they wish - and some other clerics are certainly capable of worshipping the same diety but with a different organization entirely.

So the "gods" could have wished all they want, it is irrelevant - they are out of the picture. Perhaps BECAUSE they have such power, they are never seen - what use would they have for anyone else anyway?

 

[Lord Pendragon]

If Wishes can grant extra Feats and Skills, that does raise the question of why gods don't grant themselves extra Feats all the time.

My gods are outside of the rules of D&D. When, on a rare occasion, they choose to manifest a mortal form, they use any feat they like.