D&D 5E With the release of each new setting book, the SCAG looks worse and worse...

[gyor]

This is a backward argument; FR has delivered more because it has been the most published. That's not an argument for it being published even more, I'd argue that it's an argument for the opposite.

The second part, that there are a huge amount of FR fans who want this, is also not an argument. I can easily argue that Dark Sun fans want their own setting book, and Greyhawk fans want their own book (if the SCAG isn't a book for FR, Saltmarsh certainly isn't one for GH).

And every time someone posts a poll on "which setting should get a setting book next," Dark Sun is the runaway winner. So popularity doesn't support you entirely here.

It's been published more because it delivered, it sold better then other settings even when correcting for volume of content, otherwise other settings would have been published more, and it sold well across editions. You sell the settings that sell the best, it's that simple.

And of course Darksun has fans and same with the other traditional settings and they deserve their time in the sun too, it's just that their are a lot more Forgotten Realms fans then other settings (Exandia could evovle into an exception).

Even Forgotten Realms subsettings like Al Qadim and Kara Tur and Maztica are more popular then most traditional D&D settings.

 

[gyor]

I think there are two reasons for that. First is that the Forgotten Realms is a kitchen sink setting, as are Greyhawk and I think Eberron. The others, Darksun, Planescape, etc. are niche settings that rely heavily on a specific theme, so will appeal to fewer people than a kitchen sink setting. Greyhawk and Eberron are also very popular due to their kitchen sink nature. The second reason is sheer amount of lore. In 2e the Realms received a zillion times more support and lore than Greyhawk, which propelled it way out in front with regard to popularity. In 3e, WotC went with the popular and supported it a zillion times more than Eberron and Greyhawk. Had the latter two settings received the same support, I think they would be more popular and you'd see a much narrower gap.

It got more support because it sold better and did better then settings like Greyhawk and Eberron, which while very popular in their own right don't compare to FR.

You guys are trying to argue that FR is more popular because it got more support, but that is not how fandom works, fans go towards quality, not just quanity, which other traditional D&D settings have in abundance, even if it's less then FR, it's still more then enough to fill multiple books.

Other settings have gotten more pushes including niche and none niche settings, they don't do as well as FR.

 

[Urriak Uruk]

It's been published more because it delivered, it sold better then other settings even when correcting for volume of content, otherwise other settings would have been published more, and it sold well across editions. You sell the settings that sell the best, it's that simple.

And of course Darksun has fans and same with the other traditional settings and they deserve their time in the sun too, it's just that their are a lot more Forgotten Realms fans then other settings (Exandia could evovle into an exception).

Even Forgotten Realms subsettings like Al Qadim and Kara Tur and Maztica are more popular then most traditional D&D settings.

Do we actually know that it would sell the most compared to other settings, at least today for this edition? Do we have concrete sales numbers for D&D 5E?

Right now when I look on Amazon, the SCAG is ranked as #15 for D&D books. That's slightly better than Ravnica (#17) but it is worse than Eberron (11) and Wildemount (2).

Now, I have no doubt that a good FR setting book for non-Sword Coast lands would sell well. I am extremely doubtful it would sell more compared to equally good books for Dark Sun, Planescape, or even Dragonlance.

And again, just because FR has more "fans" (which I think has more to do with it being well-known), it still gets beat by other settings when you ask who should get the next setting book. I did a poll on this a while ago (below). Although Al-Qadim and Kara-tur had a decent showing, even when you combine their votes Greyhawk, Planescape and Dark Sun just crushed them (22/23 votes to a combined 13).

D&D 5E - Poll: What D&D setting do you want to have an official 5E book?

The title says it all, but I'm making this as there does seem to be a (small) controversy brewing about the choice to give CR an official campaign setting book. However, the reasons for why people feel that way seem to be scattershot, so I want to know from you... what settings do you actually...

www.enworld.org

 

[Maxperson]

It got more support because it sold better and did better then settings like Greyhawk and Eberron, which while very popular in their own right don't compare to FR.

This is simply not correct. In 2e Greyhawk never got even remotely the same support that the Realms got. In fact, it got one campaign book and very little else. In short, it got a minor push, so it's no wonder it didn't do well. Had TSR fleshed out the various countries like it did to the Realms, Greyhawk would have been much more popular.

Along came WotC and they had a cash cow and nothing else of substance due to TSR's blundering, so of course they went with the Realms as the primary source of books.

You guys are trying to argue that FR is more popular because it got more support, but that is not how fandom works, fans go towards quality, not just quanity, which other traditional D&D settings have in abundance, even if it's less then FR, it's still more then enough to fill multiple books.

And this argument just proves us right. Greyhawk and Eberron are still two very popular campaigns due to.............QUALITY! They just never got the support to raise them to more than they are.

Would those two be as popular as the Realms? Maybe Greyhawk had TSR supported it in 2e, but I suspect they deliberately tanked it due to their issues with Gygax. Once 3e came around, they could not possibly catch up to the Realms in the same way that no other RPG can ever catch up to D&D, regardless of quality.

Other settings have gotten more pushes including niche and none niche settings, they don't do as well as FR.

No kitchen sink setting has received anything other than a minor(Greyhawk) to moderate(Eberron) push, so they had no chance to do better. The two niche settings that got major pushes were Planescape and Spelljammer, but being niche, no amount of pushing could get them anywhere near the Realms. It doesn't matter how many books on flying through space on magic ships they put out, if you don't like the concept you aren't going to buy it.

 

[dave2008]

Agreed, I see no reason it should focus as much on the Swordcoast & it's local underdark, instead it should focus on the rest of Faerun, and if there is room the other continents and realmspace/cosmology.

There are so many cool regions to explore, the Shining South, the Cold Lands, the Lands of Intrigue, The Old Empires, The Unapproachable East, the Utter East, the Hordelands, the Western Heartlands, the Chult, the Moonsea, Halruua, more distant regions of the Underdark, Turmish, Chondath (if it returned), the Blade Kingdoms, the Lake of Steam, the Shaar, Sea of Fallen Stars, ect...

Now I understand why they haven't made a setting source book for the Forgotten Realms!

 

[gyor]

Do we actually know that it would sell the most compared to other settings, at least today for this edition? Do we have concrete sales numbers for D&D 5E?

Right now when I look on Amazon, the SCAG is ranked as #15 for D&D books. That's slightly better than Ravnica (#17) but it is worse than Eberron (11) and Wildemount (2).

Now, I have no doubt that a good FR setting book for non-Sword Coast lands would sell well. I am extremely doubtful it would sell more compared to equally good books for Dark Sun, Planescape, or even Dragonlance.

And again, just because FR has more "fans" (which I think has more to do with it being well-known), it still gets beat by other settings when you ask who should get the next setting book. I did a poll on this a while ago (below). Although Al-Qadim and Kara-tur had a decent showing, even when you combine their votes Greyhawk, Planescape and Dark Sun just crushed them (22/23 votes to a combined 13).

D&D 5E - Poll: What D&D setting do you want to have an official 5E book?

The title says it all, but I'm making this as there does seem to be a (small) controversy brewing about the choice to give CR an official campaign setting book. However, the reasons for why people feel that way seem to be scattershot, so I want to know from you... what settings do you actually...

www.enworld.org

That is hardly a scientific poll or even a good source of information, most FR fans aren't on Enworld.

And the SCAG was published away back in 2015, of course its not selling as well as newer books, none of the rest are even 2 years old! That its still beating Ravnica even with its age, small size, lack of support for regions outside the Swordcoast, and mechanical flaws it a testament to the settubg that its still competitive with the rest, all of which came out after D&D 5e exploded in popularity compared to when the SCAG was released.

And the huge popularity of Wildemount actually proves my point, its not the volume of marketing or lore that dictates the popularity of a setting, its the quality and the ability to connect with an audience that does.

Exandia could eventually be a rival to FR, but both of its main continents already have 5e setting books, and the rest aren't ready for a book yet until season 3 of critical role, which has been delayed.

This leaves plenty of room for a FRCG 5e book, after which more niche and less popular (but still popular settings), can get their campaign books.

 

[gyor]

This is simply not correct. In 2e Greyhawk never got even remotely the same support that the Realms got. In fact, it got one campaign book and very little else. In short, it got a minor push, so it's no wonder it didn't do well. Had TSR fleshed out the various countries like it did to the Realms, Greyhawk would have been much more popular.

Along came WotC and they had a cash cow and nothing else of substance due to TSR's blundering, so of course they went with the Realms as the primary source of books.



And this argument just proves us right. Greyhawk and Eberron are still two very popular campaigns due to.............QUALITY! They just never got the support to raise them to more than they are.

Would those two be as popular as the Realms? Maybe Greyhawk had TSR supported it in 2e, but I suspect they deliberately tanked it due to their issues with Gygax. Once 3e came around, they could not possibly catch up to the Realms in the same way that no other RPG can ever catch up to D&D, regardless of quality.


No kitchen sink setting has received anything other than a minor(Greyhawk) to moderate(Eberron) push, so they had no chance to do better. The two niche settings that got major pushes were Planescape and Spelljammer, but being niche, no amount of pushing could get them anywhere near the Realms. It doesn't matter how many books on flying through space on magic ships they put out, if you don't like the concept you aren't going to buy it.

Dungeon Masters Guild -

There are tons of Greyhawk books. Is Greyhawk as fleshed out as the Forgotten Realms no, but at the volume of lore we are talking about it's hardly going to be what dictates popularity. Plus a lot of folks hate the realms because it has so much lore, it's a double edged sword when it comes to popularity.

No, it's the quality of setting that has caused it's popularity.

 

[gyor]

Now I understand why they haven't made a setting source book for the Forgotten Realms!

What is that supposed to mean, I know you are teasing from the emoji, I just don't get it.

 

[Maxperson]

Dungeon Masters Guild -

There are tons of Greyhawk books. Is Greyhawk as fleshed out as the Forgotten Realms no, but at the volume of lore we are talking about it's hardly going to be what dictates popularity. Plus a lot of folks hate the realms because it has so much lore, it's a double edged sword when it comes to popularity.

No, it's the quality of setting that has caused it's popularity.

Um, DM's guild is completely irrelevant to what I'm saying.

 

[gyor]

Um, DM's guild is completely irrelevant to what I'm saying.

Those were all pdfs of officially published Greyhawk products. You buy them off DMGUILD, because it absorbed the site that used to sell PDFs of older published official books, but they aren't DMSGUILD products, Greyhawk isn't an allowed setting for DMSGUILD authors in fact.