Wizard and spellbooks

[Trevelyan]

The section on creating higher level characters (pg 143 of the DMG) suggests that powers, and by associaiton spells, should be limited to one known/prepared per available level. i.e. a 15th level character has a 15th, 9th, and 5th level slot any of which might be used to hold a lower level power, but non of which can be used to hold a higher level power. So you can't have a 15th and two 9th level spells prepareed, but you could have a 5th and two 9th level spells with one 9th level spell in the 15th level slot.

To make the whole thing easier, I'm tempted to give the Wizard 2 (or three with Expendad Spellbook) spells of each level as that level becomes available. Those automatic spells generally stay in the book, so a 15th level wizard would have 2 spells each of 1st, 5th, 9th and 15th level, but would still only have a 15th, 9th and 5th level slot. Theoretically he has lots of extra powers known, but those first level powers are rarely going to be prepared in the higher level slots since higher level powers are generally more potent.

If the wizard chooses, he can retrain lower level spells to add additional higher level spells to his book, for example dropping a 1st level spell to add another 15th level spell, leaving him with one 1st level and three 15th level spells of which he can still only prepare one per day.

 

[SweeneyTodd]

According to the PHB, as written, it doesn't work like this. I know it can be changed to however I want, but I would've thought they might have been able to come up with something a little better. Litterally, the old spell vanishes from the spellbook and the new spell takes its place. This is of some importance gamewise because their is limited space in a spellbook. If the spell doesn't disappear it is taking up space in the spellbook but it is of no use to the Wizard.

Again according to the rules the spellbook as a game construct and as a physical item aren't seperate.

This is a pretty common interpretation of 4e in general, about a lot of things, not just spellbooks. I totally get why people think of it that way because the old versions just told you how it worked "in game", the new one really doesn't care as long as the mechanics fit your explanation.

The spellbook, as a game construct, works the way the rules indicate. The spellbook, as an in-game physical item, works however you wish to justify it, *as long as* the end result matches the game mechanics. This is true of powers, monsters from the MM, really everything in the game. Plenty of people aren't happy about that, but it's how it's written.

The in-game description of almost anything in 4e is not finalized by the rules, it's left up to the DM and the campaign. That's just how it's designed. Trying to come up with in-game justifications as to how things work from the flavor text in 4e isn't going to give useful results any more than trying to play Magic: the Gathering and considering flavor text on the cards as part of the rules.

One way I'd handle it to improve plausibility would be to allow Wizards to cast any spells they'd had in their spellbook but had retrained out of to cast them as rituals, with the in-game justification being that you can't keep more than X spells in your spellbook fresh enough in your head to be ready to cast easily. It gives the wizard a little extra power, but not all that much, since any power with a purely combat usage, for example, is pretty much worthless as a lengthy ritual. And it at least fits with the mechanics and flavor of collecting rituals since that's where the whole "wizard collecting all the mystical lore they can find" shtick has moved to.

(As for the "I can't forget that, it's only been a week!" thing -- if you're leveling up that fast, just think back to finals week in college for explanation. I can remember plenty of times where by Friday I wouldn't be able to remember a single thing from an exam I'd taken on Monday. And that was without overland travel and deadly combat in the mix. )

 

[vagabundo]

I'm throwing my take into the ring.

Each time you gain a level that lets you select a
daily spell or a utility spell, choose two different daily
spells or utility spells of that level to add to your book.

At 15th level you are selecting a new spell, so choose two.

If you replace a spell because of gaining a level or
through retraining, the previous spell vanishes from
your spellbook and is replaced by the new spell.

The spells are replacing some lower level spells so choose two old spells for the new spells to replace.

I really dont think it needs to be more complicated than that. This isnt 3.x you know!!

EDIT: I do see a potential issue: @ 15th level a wizards daily spell list (w/ Expan. SB) can go from 3 9th levels spells to 3 15 levels and this could be overpowered. But I am not going to worry about it until I see it abused in play. Much better than getting players to silo thier choices and replace on mass. I think this ability gives the Wizard some flexibility in spell choice and that is the point. Hope WotC can clarify....

 

[locustus]

Page 28:

Daily Attack Powers: At 1st level, choose one power from the list of 1st-level daily attack powers in
your class description. You learn a new daily attack power of your level or lower at 5th level and again at 9th level.
At 20th level, you learn a new daily power, determined by your paragon path.
At 15th, 19th, 25th, and 29th levels, you can replace any daily attack power you know from your class with a new daily attack power of your new level (or a daily attack power of a lower level, if you choose).

I would say at Level 15 you can have: 15, 15, 15, 15, 15, 15 (or lower)

 

[Trevelyan]

I would say at Level 15 you can have: 15, 15, 15, 15, 15, 15 (or lower)

If you can't see why that's wrong then I don't know what to say.

 

[vagabundo]

Page 28:


I would say at Level 15 you can have: 15, 15, 15, 15, 15, 15 (or lower)

Looks good to me, totally end runs the issue.

Except for the disappearing spells issue

 

[Majoru Oakheart]

If you can't see why that's wrong then I don't know what to say.

If only because there aren't that many 15th level powers..

 

[locustus]

Please can you try! English is not mother language.

As far as i can see it states for power swaps at level 15th, 19th, 25, 29th:

1) you can replace any daily attack power
2) from your class
3) with a new daily attack power of your new level
4) (or a daily attack power of a lower level, if you choose)


As 2) you cannot swap your paragon path or epic destiny daily attack power.

As 4) you can swap to any attack power below your level.


What do i miss?

 

[Zsig]

Could be a rules "conflict" but if you check the "Character Advancement" table (page 29), it clearly states "replace 1 daily attack power" and not "replace any number of daily attack powers"

 

[locustus]

As far as i know WotC's errata rules text nearly always trumps table. So i would set with my interpretation until official errata.