Wizard Cleric vs Artificer dilemma

[sumi]

My DM is running an Eberron campaign with a few changes. The party has no magical support apart from a 7th level Artificer. The DM has done away with clerics and Wizards and introduced a Scholar class. This gives you all Clerical and wizard spells; 1d6 hit points per level; no familiar; no turning (done by Paladins).
My problem is that if you start at say 6th level then I would have 4 3rd level spells; 4 2nd level spells and 6 + Int 1st level spells. To gain extra spells I would have to buy them. It seems I would spend most of the money I ever earnt from adventuring on buying a range of spells to make the scholar the versatile spell user it should be. Therefore, would I and the party not be better off with my character being another Artificer. They can create any spell they want to and put it to scroll; they can create many useful items and have a craft reservoir that makes them more versatile than the scholar.

What, therefore, would be the best option? Am I thinking too short term and Scholars will rule?
Suggetions please

 

[Jubilee]

If you go scholar, get the Artificer to make you an Aureon's Spell Shard ASAP. It's effectivley half of a boccob's blessed book. You can find it in the core Eberron book, and it costs about 6,000. The advantage is that you will not have to pay to scribe spells into the shard.

Consider taking Collegiate Wizard, if you can talk your GM into it - this gives you 4 free spells a level instead of 2.

I play an archivist, which is somewhat similar to the scholar you describe, except I can only get divine spells (but from any source - ranger, paladin, druid, cleric, etc..) in an Eberron game, and ever since I got a spell shard, I have not had to worry much about scribing spells into my book. I put my freebie spells in a regular spellbook and all else in the shard. I'm now up to 4th level spells, and I have a quite sizeable amount of them, and I'm not yet close to running out of space on the shard.

As a pure caster, I never get into melee, and can use spells to attack or protect myself as need be, so I do not need to worry about most of the things that drain the other character's resources - armor, weapons, potions, ammo. This does help offset to a certain degree the amount of money you have to spend on scrolls and scribing.

According to the newest Dragon Magazine "Ask the Sage" Artificers can now make scrolls that are EITHER (instead of neither) arcane or divine, as designated by the artificer - this means you can probably get the artificer in the party to make you scrolls at a lower price - the best way to do this is to emphasize the advantage this has to the party - such as, wouldn't it be nice if I had mass cure light wounds for all of you? Wouldn't you like me to be able to Heal you? Wouldn't it be nice for everyone if I could cast circle of protection against evil? etc, etc, etc.

Keep a wish list of spells that you want to find, and remind the GM every once in a while. I've gotten one or two off of my wish list so far..

It's going to take the Artificer alot longer to replicate the spells you could cast as a Scholar, and he's probably going to have less of them per day. It also costs an artificer alot of time and money, even with the craft reserve, to make useful magic items, so I don't really think the Scholar is inherently more expensive.

 

[Question]

See if your DM will allow you to gain 1 new spell of each class(divine and arcane) free per level up. That will help.

Other than that most DMs i know are fairly lenient on the rules of scribing spells in.

 

[sumi]

See if your DM will allow you to gain 1 new spell of each class(divine and arcane) free per level up. That will help.

The DM is fairly strict that it is going to be just 2 spells per level. This would not bother me that much if I was a starting character. Then I can collect spells as I advance. However, at 6th 4 2nd level and 4 3rd level does not make me versatile. Plus the DM gives a lot of experience on your individual contributions to completing tasks. Therefore, I think that I will struggle to contribute to begin with.


I am unsure what starting equipment I am allowed. Maybe that will help.

Thanks for your suggestions.

 

[Plane Sailing]

I'm the DM

If you go scholar, get the Artificer to make you an Aureon's Spell Shard ASAP. It's effectivley half of a boccob's blessed book. You can find it in the core Eberron book, and it costs about 6,000. The advantage is that you will not have to pay to scribe spells into the shard.

I don't charge scholars (or wizards for that matter) anything to scribe spells into their shards anyway.

See if your DM will allow you to gain 1 new spell of each class(divine and arcane) free per level up. That will help.

There is no divine/arcane divide in this campaign so that (and the issue of artificer scroll type) doesn't come up - it is all just 'magic'.

Keep a wish list of spells that you want to find, and remind the GM every once in a while. I've gotten one or two off of my wish list so far..

Absolutly. I'm doing the same thing for Shockwaves' character right now.

The DM is fairly strict that it is going to be just 2 spells per level. This would not bother me that much if I was a starting character. Then I can collect spells as I advance.

Well, I'm strict, but I'm not a monster I thought you were just talking about the 'level up' spells when we had the short email discussion about it. Starting as a higher level (i.e. replacement) character as well as the starting spells that you choose, you will have one or two 'captured spellbooks' which will have some spells in that I'll give you as part of your starting treasure - the same as I'm doing for Shockwaves new character.

This means that the replacement character gets 4 spells of each spell level that he really wants, plus some additional semi-random spells too.

Whatever happens, you'll be better off than a straight PHB wizard could ever be (extra hp, wider spell choice).

It remains to be seen how powerful Artificers turn out to be though. I've heard rumblings that they can get a bit insane at high levels (at the moment it is mostly Bane weapon enhancements and crafting of magic items going on).

Cheers

 

[irdeggman]

There is no divine/arcane divide in this campaign so that (and the issue of artificer scroll type) doesn't come up - it is all just 'magic'.




It remains to be seen how powerful Artificers turn out to be though. I've heard rumblings that they can get a bit insane at high levels (at the moment it is mostly Bane weapon enhancements and crafting of magic items going on).

Cheers

They will be extremely powerful if you aren't separating arcane and divine spells.

One of the restrictions on the artificer is that all items he makes are neither arcane nor divine (despite the Sage's recent article - it is in the ECS errata).

What this means is that (in the normal rules) that an artificer can make a scroll of any kind but that no one can scribe them into their spell book since they aren't arcane. And in order to use the scrolls anyone would ahve to make a UMD check.

 

[Plane Sailing]

They will be extremely powerful if you aren't separating arcane and divine spells.

One of the restrictions on the artificer is that all items he makes are neither arcane nor divine (despite the Sage's recent article - it is in the ECS errata).

What this means is that (in the normal rules) that an artificer can make a scroll of any kind but that no one can scribe them into their spell book since they aren't arcane. And in order to use the scrolls anyone would ahve to make a UMD check.

I don't see how it would make the artificer any more powerful; apart from it makes it possible for him to equip the scholars with new spells - at the cost of time, money and xp (or craft reserve). I'm OK with that, especially considering that in normal D&D clerics get access to everything for free anyhow...

Cheers

 

[irdeggman]

I don't see how it would make the artificer any more powerful; apart from it makes it possible for him to equip the scholars with new spells - at the cost of time, money and xp (or craft reserve). I'm OK with that, especially considering that in normal D&D clerics get access to everything for free anyhow...

Cheers

Since it appears that the scholar has a "spellbook" of sorts the benefit is that the artificer can "give him" arcane spells for "free".

The xp cost for an artificer to create a scroll is real low. He can still use the scroll normally after the scholar scribes it (again at no cost to the scholar per your rules). This allows teh scholar to gain a lot of arcane spells pretty quick and relatively free.

One of the balancers for artificers was that the things they made were "different" and things that depended on a "type" of spell (like scrolls) had no type and thus couldnt be used by other classes without a UMD check.

If you are trying to limit the gaining of spells for the scholar you have just built in a ready made system to "bypass" that intended restriction by using the artificer.

 

[Plane Sailing]

Since it appears that the scholar has a "spellbook" of sorts the benefit is that the artificer can "give him" arcane spells for "free".

The xp cost for an artificer to create a scroll is real low. He can still use the scroll normally after the scholar scribes it (again at no cost to the scholar per your rules). This allows teh scholar to gain a lot of arcane spells pretty quick and relatively free.

One of the balancers for artificers was that the things they made were "different" and things that depended on a "type" of spell (like scrolls) had no type and thus couldnt be used by other classes without a UMD check.

If you are trying to limit the gaining of spells for the scholar you have just built in a ready made system to "bypass" that intended restriction by using the artificer.

OK, I understand what you are saying, but disagree with your premise and conclusions.

An artificer can make it easier for a scholar to gain spells, if there is a friendly artificer who has time and craft reserve and money to spare (low level spells are very cheap, higher level spells less so). There is a difference between 'free' and 'relatively free'

It might be that the artificers are 'balanced' by having their scrolls (ONLY scrolls iirc) be different, but even in the ECS that had no effect on clerics who had access to their whole spell list anyway.

So in setting up the Scholar as somewhere between cleric and wizard, and enabling them to learn spells from artificers, I'm setting their spell availability somewhere between that of Clerics and Wizards in the core rules.

This is a feature, not a bug

Cheers