Wizard of Spiral Tower question

[OchreJelly]

The Wizard of the Spiral Tower PP has a power called Shape the Dream. It's an immediate interrupt the wizard can use when an attack targets his will defense.

The attack doesn’t occur, as if the creature that attacked you chose to do nothing with its action.

How does this resolve is the attacker uses an AOE attack? Does that mean it "never ocurred" for all targets? If so, does the line "It chose to do nothing" mean the attacker could use a different standard action instead?

 

[Nifft]

1 - The attack doesn't occur.

It doesn't occur for anyone. If it was a limited-use power, it's not expended.


2 - The creature behaves in all ways as though it had chosen to do nothing with its action.

It does not get to do something else with its action.

Cheers, -- N

 

[abyssaldeath]

I think it means that the attacker spends the action, but decides to do nothing with it. Just like if you were to spend a move action and decide to move 0.

 

[OchreJelly]

Hmm that's two different slightly different reads, and that's kinda where I was at to begin with. It sort of comes down to whether the attack fizzles, and therefore expends a possible limited-use power, or if it never attacked at all.

Thanks for the input. I know this is going to come up in the game soon, so I'm trying to head it off.

 

[abyssaldeath]

Hmm that's two different slightly different reads, and that's kinda where I was at to begin with. It sort of comes down to whether the attack fizzles, and therefore expends a possible limited-use power, or if it never attacked at all.

Thanks for the input. I know this is going to come up in the game soon, so I'm trying to head it off.

I didn't word mine properly. Nifft is saying the same thing I was trying to say. My example is wrong and/or poorly thought out.

 

[Ryujin]

Just reading that sentence I would have been tempted to say that an area attack simply didn't target that particular character but given that it's a daily, and a PP ability, I would say it's exactly as it reads. The opponent burns an action and nothing happens.

 

[KarinsDad]

A problem with this interpretation (which I see as totally valid, but still problematic) is that another PC could also do an immediate interrupt on that area effect attack.

Which PC wins?

The one whose immediate interrupt did damage to the attacker, or the one whose immediate interrupt totally prevented the attack?

If the attack never occurred, how could the other PC interrupt it?

 

[Nichwee]

Interesting point.

By the flow of the game/rules, it should be "Shape The Dream" trumps the others - as it states the attack didn't happen = all responses to it didn't happen either. No inconsistant effects where a person responded to/interrupted an event that didn't occur.

You could also look at letting the players interrupt in initiative order - but this one kind of trumps the others to me, as it resets the entire action.
I guess, imo, it comes down to which ability goes back further. If I interrupt damage from an attack to lessen it, but another player interrupts the attack to make it miss me his effect undoes mine - thus undoing my interrupt too.

In my game I just remind the DM to target me first with any AE vs Will, knowing I may undo the whole attack if I choose too. Then if I decide not too, the rest of the players get into the action.

 

[Nichwee]

Ok just had an idea that even further muddies the water.

Assume two PCs.
1) Rogue with fictional encounter utility "It Was Him" that lets him immediate interrupt a power targetting him to change the target to any ally within 2 squares.
2) WotST with Shape The Dream, with 2 squares of the Rogue.

BigBad casts a stun effect vs Will at the Rogue.
Rogue uses "It Was Him" to target the Wizard instead.
Wizard is hit.
Wizard uses StD to uncast the effect.

Did the Rogue use up his "It Was Him" ability? As the effect is reset to the start of the action, did the action ever target the Rogue, did the rogue every interrupt this targetting? It is assumed that the monster regains the use of its ability, as it chose not to do anything, so does the Rogue as well, as he can't have triggered his ability off of nothing?

I still go with : StD goes back further, so undoes anything that doesn't go back as far. But not sure if I can justify this by RAW. StD is one of the only abilities I know that triggers off of an event but rolls the effect back well past that event. Normally interrupts trigger on an attack roll hitting and make the same attack roll miss, for example.

 

[Nifft]

Which PC wins?

Both of them.

The one whose immediate interrupt did damage to the attacker, or the one whose immediate interrupt totally prevented the attack?

If the attack never occurred, how could the other PC interrupt it?

That logic can be used to invalidate all interrupts. Therefore, I think it's best to say interrupts ignore that logic.

Ok just had an idea that even further muddies the water.

Assume two PCs.
1) Rogue with fictional encounter utility "It Was Him" that lets him immediate interrupt a power targetting him to change the target to any ally within 2 squares.
2) WotST with Shape The Dream, with 2 squares of the Rogue.

BigBad casts a stun effect vs Will at the Rogue.
Rogue uses "It Was Him" to target the Wizard instead.
Wizard is hit.
Wizard uses StD to uncast the effect.

Did the Rogue use up his "It Was Him" ability? As the effect is reset to the start of the action, did the action ever target the Rogue, did the rogue every interrupt this targetting? It is assumed that the monster regains the use of its ability, as it chose not to do anything, so does the Rogue as well, as he can't have triggered his ability off of nothing?

I still go with : StD goes back further, so undoes anything that doesn't go back as far. But not sure if I can justify this by RAW. StD is one of the only abilities I know that triggers off of an event but rolls the effect back well past that event. Normally interrupts trigger on an attack roll hitting and make the same attack roll miss, for example.

Under my interpretation, both the Wizard and the Rogue have expended interrupt powers.

Rogue: "It was him!"
Wizard: waves hand "This is no the dude you are looking for."
Monster: "Wha... what just happened?"

Cheers, -- N