Corinnguard
Hero
Level Up does take the eight schools of magic and bundle them up into a single subclass. The Arcanist subclass.
Arcanist | Level Up
a5e.tools
D&D (2024) Wizard subclasses are a missed opportunity.
- Thread starter A2Z
- Start date
a5e.tools
In a parallel universe, this might have been awesome.
steeldragons
Steeliest of the dragons
There are certain types that are worthy of their own subclasses. There are "types" that D&D tried to make happen that simply don't work.
The point of divination and transmutation made in an earlier post are along my feelings. They aren't really something to build a single subclass around.
Essentially all magical practice in the world concerns these things...1) using magic to gain knowledge/"know" something, and 2) using magic to "change" things, idealized and mythologized as turning something -literally- into something; e.g., staves to snakes, men to pigs...or toads, take something heavy and make it light/float/fly, etc...
They are, basically, the function/purview of any magic-worker.
The "Illusionist/Enchanter," on the other hand, has a flavor of its own and magic that functions/does specific things to perceptions and minds.
The "Abjurer" is one of the first and most widespread type of magic user. The use of magics to thwart/protect from other magics, whether directed curses and the dark of night or the general ills of the world. Better name needed, certainly (D&D kinda mucked that up a bit from the get go), but an essential and - I would submit - necessary archetype in a magical world
The "Necromancer" is, of course, the one delving into those "forbidden arts," in large part/most settings, eschewed by most other magic-workers. Controlling the powers of life, death, and soul...beyond "the cardinal elements," beyond "trickery," beyond "what can be known...by 'normal/safe/accepted' magic."
A Conjurer, depending on one's flavor/definitions, could be just someone pulling rabbits out of hats or coins from behind ears. OR could be the demon summoner or call upon celestial tigers to defeat ones foes. As likely, one who "calls upon/up" (a.k.a. "evocation") a whirlwind or ball of fire. I have long thought Evocation/Conjuration to be of a kind. But D&D has striven, ever, to make the one about the "making/controlling of energies" and the other about the "creating something out of nothing or summoning creatures from beyond."
I don't necessarily think it that strong of an archetype to warrant its own subclass - by "school" of magic! BUT it is a theme for a subclass that could certainly work... not the least of which to provide an in-game "thwart/dynamic/dichotomy" between the "conjurers" and "abjurers" as I've done in my setting.
Similarly, Conjuration can be viewed as a natural "dark arts" kind of thing easily paired with Necromancers...just dealing in demons and devils instead of (or along with!) the dead.
So a "conjuring/conjurer" subclass seems appropriate just as a broader/more thematic subclass versus a "school-subclass."
The point of divination and transmutation made in an earlier post are along my feelings. They aren't really something to build a single subclass around.
Essentially all magical practice in the world concerns these things...1) using magic to gain knowledge/"know" something, and 2) using magic to "change" things, idealized and mythologized as turning something -literally- into something; e.g., staves to snakes, men to pigs...or toads, take something heavy and make it light/float/fly, etc...
They are, basically, the function/purview of any magic-worker.
The "Illusionist/Enchanter," on the other hand, has a flavor of its own and magic that functions/does specific things to perceptions and minds.
The "Abjurer" is one of the first and most widespread type of magic user. The use of magics to thwart/protect from other magics, whether directed curses and the dark of night or the general ills of the world. Better name needed, certainly (D&D kinda mucked that up a bit from the get go), but an essential and - I would submit - necessary archetype in a magical world
The "Necromancer" is, of course, the one delving into those "forbidden arts," in large part/most settings, eschewed by most other magic-workers. Controlling the powers of life, death, and soul...beyond "the cardinal elements," beyond "trickery," beyond "what can be known...by 'normal/safe/accepted' magic."
A Conjurer, depending on one's flavor/definitions, could be just someone pulling rabbits out of hats or coins from behind ears. OR could be the demon summoner or call upon celestial tigers to defeat ones foes. As likely, one who "calls upon/up" (a.k.a. "evocation") a whirlwind or ball of fire. I have long thought Evocation/Conjuration to be of a kind. But D&D has striven, ever, to make the one about the "making/controlling of energies" and the other about the "creating something out of nothing or summoning creatures from beyond."
I don't necessarily think it that strong of an archetype to warrant its own subclass - by "school" of magic! BUT it is a theme for a subclass that could certainly work... not the least of which to provide an in-game "thwart/dynamic/dichotomy" between the "conjurers" and "abjurers" as I've done in my setting.
Similarly, Conjuration can be viewed as a natural "dark arts" kind of thing easily paired with Necromancers...just dealing in demons and devils instead of (or along with!) the dead.
So a "conjuring/conjurer" subclass seems appropriate just as a broader/more thematic subclass versus a "school-subclass."
steeldragons
Steeliest of the dragons
So, annnnnyway....
Illusionist -as a subclass all its own makes sense. It can also encompass those that would like to play an "enchanter" type of mage, or the more "stage magician" style of "conjurer."
Abjurer/"Abjurist"/"Warder" - as the "protection magic/counterspelling" specialist as a subclass makes sense.
Conjurer -as a subclass all its own makes sense for the "offensive/damaging/"dangerous" mage. This can incorporate those who want to be lightning throwing "evoker" type wizards as easily as the elemental-controller or demon-/monster-summoner or even a "low-level/simple version for a "necromancer" -flavoring your conjuration spells to use shadows or dead spirits or whatever. It's really just a matter of spell selection, some fluffing, and maybe a specialized feat here or there that can define the kind of "conjurer" you are. But, generally, even for/among the heroes/"good guys" a conjurer -and their "blowy uppy" magics - would be a cause to be wary.
That would leave one more (presuming we are tying to keep to the standardized 5.24 version....so what's the other thematic (enough) way of doing a "wizard" that is not just a "specific kind of magic/spell-user."
The "Fighter-Mage" archetype seems strong enough... I would say even to warrant it's own base class, imho. So the "swordmagey/bladesinger" kind of wizard should probably be saved/created -finally- all its own. Bascially, imho, as long as the "Paladin" exists as its own class, the Fighter/Mage (PF "Magus") archetype should, too.
The "artificer" isn't really something that floats my boat...not enough to warrant a subclass. More of an "inscribe runes" or "craft item" or "make magicky device" feat (or a few feats/tree) kind of thing. I could see them as a "prestige class" (3-5 levels of specialized theme) that could be for wizards making wands or clerics making holy water or sacred weapons, even thieves/rogues making mini-magic trap-tripping devices. So, something a bunch of types could learn to do, that a "wizard's" abilities aren't really the basis for.
The "Elementalist" (either specified as a single element creator/controller or a layered/multi-element caster could, potentially, work for the "evoker" type mages as opposed to a "conjurer" type or an "Avatar:TLA" kind of character/archetype...but they don't really go far enough on their own...a "fire-mage" could just be a conjurer who chooses all fire spells and fluffs other spells to include/explain with fiery effect. So, let's call the Elementalist a "maybe."
---------------
Necromancer - for my homebrew/setting/games - I have shunted off to the realm of "prestige class." Mages of a certain bent (or desire), priests of wicked gods, demented clerics who have lost faith or found themselves in such desperation as to delve into the "abomination" of reviving the dead/toying with/using spirits to do their bidding,...even druids who a have gone mad or fallen from the Balance into such despair as to wade/drown in deep end of "death/decay/entropy" could all become a "Necromancer."
---------------
So, yeah, not sure what a best fourth thematic subclass would be.
Illusionist -as a subclass all its own makes sense. It can also encompass those that would like to play an "enchanter" type of mage, or the more "stage magician" style of "conjurer."
Abjurer/"Abjurist"/"Warder" - as the "protection magic/counterspelling" specialist as a subclass makes sense.
Conjurer -as a subclass all its own makes sense for the "offensive/damaging/"dangerous" mage. This can incorporate those who want to be lightning throwing "evoker" type wizards as easily as the elemental-controller or demon-/monster-summoner or even a "low-level/simple version for a "necromancer" -flavoring your conjuration spells to use shadows or dead spirits or whatever. It's really just a matter of spell selection, some fluffing, and maybe a specialized feat here or there that can define the kind of "conjurer" you are. But, generally, even for/among the heroes/"good guys" a conjurer -and their "blowy uppy" magics - would be a cause to be wary.
That would leave one more (presuming we are tying to keep to the standardized 5.24 version....so what's the other thematic (enough) way of doing a "wizard" that is not just a "specific kind of magic/spell-user."
The "Fighter-Mage" archetype seems strong enough... I would say even to warrant it's own base class, imho. So the "swordmagey/bladesinger" kind of wizard should probably be saved/created -finally- all its own. Bascially, imho, as long as the "Paladin" exists as its own class, the Fighter/Mage (PF "Magus") archetype should, too.
The "artificer" isn't really something that floats my boat...not enough to warrant a subclass. More of an "inscribe runes" or "craft item" or "make magicky device" feat (or a few feats/tree) kind of thing. I could see them as a "prestige class" (3-5 levels of specialized theme) that could be for wizards making wands or clerics making holy water or sacred weapons, even thieves/rogues making mini-magic trap-tripping devices. So, something a bunch of types could learn to do, that a "wizard's" abilities aren't really the basis for.
The "Elementalist" (either specified as a single element creator/controller or a layered/multi-element caster could, potentially, work for the "evoker" type mages as opposed to a "conjurer" type or an "Avatar:TLA" kind of character/archetype...but they don't really go far enough on their own...a "fire-mage" could just be a conjurer who chooses all fire spells and fluffs other spells to include/explain with fiery effect. So, let's call the Elementalist a "maybe."
---------------
Necromancer - for my homebrew/setting/games - I have shunted off to the realm of "prestige class." Mages of a certain bent (or desire), priests of wicked gods, demented clerics who have lost faith or found themselves in such desperation as to delve into the "abomination" of reviving the dead/toying with/using spirits to do their bidding,...even druids who a have gone mad or fallen from the Balance into such despair as to wade/drown in deep end of "death/decay/entropy" could all become a "Necromancer."
---------------
So, yeah, not sure what a best fourth thematic subclass would be.
Similar Threads
