Wizard vs. Monk...Winner?

[Nail]

And more to the point, all you prove by bringing them up is that, once again, when someone talks about something that varies from most people's experience, that their opinion really stems from a series of house rules that they have adopted that have changed the baseline assumed by the game.

This point is so often true, it's silly.

"If you are having trouble in your game, take a hard look at your list of House Rules. Some of them might not be as clever as you thought."

 

[Nail]

In a sense, I tried to counter any tactic a wizard might employ. By simply walling yourself off and doing your own prep work.

Mordenkainen's Disjunction

What Ring of Greater Spell Storing?

 

[Zimbel]

What would make a "fair" arena

I propose turning the question slightly: "How would an arena need to be modified to give the Wizard and Monk closer to an equal chance of winning" (other that the arena, we use the original suggestion). Some ideas:
1) Top the Ceiling at, say, 15'. This reduces the advantage of Fly.
2) Make the Ceiling, walls, and floor out of exotica. Like layered walls of force layerd with Prismatic Walls (or a simular effect- the Prismatic wall has to be verticle). Hit the entire internal area with Dimensional Lock.
3) Give a lot of really good cover (lead-lined cubbyholes made out of force?), and a significant amount of concealment.
4) Limit line of sight to a short distance.
5) Do not limit hearing.
6) Have numerous antimagic and/or Wild Magic fields. Have them move, either randomly or in patterns which aren't trivially discernable.
7) Have numerous mechanical and magical traps in the arena, some of which are non-trivial for summoned creatures to trigger. Make the vast majority of them reflex-save based.

I think that all of these combined may be close to evening the odds.

 

[Macbrea]

Well, Lets figure out what a wizard really would have for DCs:

Start Int 18
LvL Int +5
Book Int +5
Headband +6
= Int 34 = +12 bonus

Assume feat Spell penetration for +2 DC.

10 + 9th level spell + 12 + 2 = DC 33


All magic items need to roll a 12 or higher to survive a mord's disjunction. That by the way is probably the best bang for the buck the wizard can start with on a fighter type.

 

[Artoomis]

Mordenkainen's Disjunction

What Ring of Greater Spell Storing?

1. Will Save

2. Monks should carry a minor artifact.

Even artifacts are subject to disjunction, though there is only a 1% chance per caster level of actually affecting such powerful items. Additionally, if an artifact is destroyed, you must make a DC 25 Will save or permanently lose all spellcasting abilities. (These abilities cannot be recovered by mortal magic, not even miracle or wish.)

20% chance. Wizards don't normally cast this spell as being WAY too risky.

 

[Nail]

Of course there's a Will save.

....and now the Monk can purchase a Minor Artifact? Please.

 

[Artoomis]

Of course there's a Will save.

....and now the Monk can purchase a Minor Artifact? Please.

Perhaps not, but, most importantly, the wizard should NOT be able to count on him NOT having one.

Otherwise M' Disjunction becomes a freebie that it's not supposed to be.

 

[Nail]

10 + 9th level spell + 12 + 2 = DC 33.

And the Mnk's Will save could be 12(class) +5(cloak) +6(wisdom) = +23 .....or some such. (That's just an eye-balled save.)

So slightly less than half of the Mnk 20's magic items would be gone, and all of his active buffs, etc. Timing, as in all things high-level, would be everything.

 

[Nail]

Perhaps not, but, most importantly, the wizard should NOT be able to count on him NOT having one.

Atoomis: The only way the Monk can win is if he has a minor artifact? Are you being serious?

 

[Macbrea]

Technically. the monk is better off in any fight versus a wizard to start by using a ring of spell storing with an antimagic field in it. Or a ring of wishes to wish for that antimagic field. The wizard should always open up with Mord's disjunction and Force cage.

Heck, isn't worred about the junk that monk is keeping on him!