Wizards and Cure Spells

[Xath]

Essentially, wizards learn spells by copying arcane scrolls into their spellbook and then memorizing certain spells each day.

Bards have a varied spell list, but still cast as arcane casters. Yet Bards can take cure spells and can take the Scribe Scroll feat. So they would create Arcane scrolls of Cure. I think they're even listed in the DMG.

So could a Wizard copy an arcane Cure into his spell book, essentially learning to cast cure spells? I realize that the cure spells don't appear on the wizard spell list, but if a Wizard can use an arcane curing scroll, what's to stop him from learning the spell?

 

[Hypersmurf]

I realize that the cure spells don't appear on the wizard spell list, but if a Wizard can use an arcane curing scroll, what's to stop him from learning the spell?

A wizard can't use an arcane curing scroll.

To have any chance of activating a scroll spell, the scroll user must meet the following requirements.

- The spell must be of the correct type (arcane or divine). Arcane spellcasters (wizards, sorcerers, and bards) can only use scrolls containing arcane spells, and divine spellcasters (clerics, druids, paladins, and rangers) can only use scrolls containing divine spells. (The type of scroll a character creates is also determined by his or her class.)

- The user must have the spell on his or her class list.

- The user must have the requisite ability score.

-Hyp.

 

[UltimaGabe]

Burn.

 

[Sigurd]

Arcane healing is nurfed as a game balance issue. It is mostly the exclusive preserve of Clerics and divine magic. That said 3rd edition gives clerics arcane spells all over the place. I still would n't want to break this model lightly though.

I remember seeing a feat that allows a wizard to cast healing spells as arcane spells 2 levels higher ie Cure Light would be a 3rd level spell. (this was not the model followed by most arcane spells cast by divine sources)

The other source for healing is Necromancy. Sort of the scientific positive\negative energy game. Heal in a medical manner or heal by channeling positive energy. At least one spell I've seen has the mage heal himself by attacking another. Also I think there is a positive energy ray that will heal the living and hurt the undead.

Sigurd

 

[Thanee]

...what's to stop him from learning the spell?

There's not much. The rules don't specify what spells wizards can learn, AFAIK.

But wizards can only cast spells, which appear on their class spell list, so learning anything besides those would be kind of foolish.

Anyways, there's the feat Arcane Disciple. If you pick the Healing domain, then the wizard would have all cure spells on his or her class spell list, but could only cast one of each spell level per day and would need Wis to cast them, as well.

Bye
Thanee

 

[Shin Okada]

Yeah. Arcane Disciple is a way to go. Not too strong. Still useful. Now I am playing a fighter mage type PC based on Paladin/Warmage. Arcane Disciple (Healing) at leased saved his life once and his friend's life once. Some times, application of one extra Cure Critical Wounds can change life and death.

 

[The_Universe]

A wizard can't use an arcane curing scroll.

To have any chance of activating a scroll spell, the scroll user must meet the following requirements.

- The spell must be of the correct type (arcane or divine). Arcane spellcasters (wizards, sorcerers, and bards) can only use scrolls containing arcane spells, and divine spellcasters (clerics, druids, paladins, and rangers) can only use scrolls containing divine spells. (The type of scroll a character creates is also determined by his or her class.)

- The user must have the spell on his or her class list.

- The user must have the requisite ability score.

-Hyp.

As hypersmurf so eloquently states, a wizard might be able to *learn* a healing spell, but he or she couldn't *cast* it, since it does not appear on the list.

Think of it like the wizard knowing, theoretically, how a healing spell should be cast, but still being unable to do so - the mindset, reflexes, (or whatever) necessary for them to be able to cast arcane, intelligence-based magic with all of its components makes them unable to sufficiently master the other, alternate type of magic, even if they can figure out how the cleric is doing it.

And its a serious game balance issue. But I suspect that's not the answer you want to hear.

 

[Xath]

I knew the game balance issue, it was more of a question of hypothetical curiosity. Because, aside from the fact that it doesn't appear on the class list, I couldn't really see any reason for a wizard not being able to learn a spell off of an arcane scroll. It doesn't just apply to cure spells, bards could scribe arcane scrolls of:

Animal Messenger
Animal Trance
Animate Objects
Calm Emotions
Confusion, Lesser
Many Cure Spells
Delay Poison
Enthrall
Find the Path
Freedom of Movement
Glibness
Good Hope
Heroe's Feast
etc....

"It doesn't appear on their spell list" is a viable answer. But what is it about Bard scrolls that makes some of them scribeable, and some not?

And what about spells scribed at different levels? Bards scribe Break Enchantment as a 4th level spell, but it's 5th level on the Sor/Wiz list. If a Wizard learns Break Enchantment from a Bard's arcane scroll, is it a 4th level or 5th level spell? The same applies to:

Charm Monster, Mass (6, 8)
Confusion (3, 4)
Crushing Dispair (3, 4)
Dispel Magic, Greater (5, 6)
Dominate Person (4, 5)
Fear (3, 4)
Geas, Lesser (3, 4)
etc..

 

[Li Shenron]

A good rules lawyer could probably find you a way to interpret the wizard's spellbook rules in a way that allows you to copy the spell from a scroll into your spellbook, and then prepare it normally from it.

That's obviously not the intent of the rules. Wizards and Sorcerers are simply not meant to cover the role of healers, hence no healing spells in their list, unless the character is a rare individual with a specific feature like the mentioned feat.

Balance reason? Sure, but in favor of the Wizard, not the Cleric Other RPG have a single class to cover both roles and don't necessarily have balance problems.

Of course, a W/S could be a healer just by multiclassing with a divine caster, or...

A wizard also can research a spell independently, duplicating an existing spell or creating an entirely new one.

...you could create an entirely new arcane spell that heals, and ask your DM if it can be allowed in her campaign.

 

[Xath]

I'm not interested in having cure spells for a character that I play. It's more of a hypothetical curiosity that would impact the availability of curing magic in our world.

There are no clerics. The only cure magic comes from the occasional Bard and Druid, but overall magic is pretty rare outside of Wizards. Every nation has Wizard schools. If it were possible for Wizards to cast the spells listed above, they'd be more easily accessable to people. If not, then they wouldn't really exist. So it's a question of "what could be available?" not "I want to be teh 1337 r0xx0r Wizard."