Wizards are supposed to be rich, right?

[gizmo33]

The economic aspects of the DnD game, IMO, have been really poorly thought out. Plus, there's this tradition of making any economic transaction completely to the detriment of the PC. I think the reasoning is two-fold:
1. PCs have too much money and if you don't have NPCs abuse them economically they're all going to use their money to buy vorpal blades and take over the campaign world.
2. PCs won't want to go adventuring if they can sit at home and do nothing and make just as much money.

Worse than that, I think some of this reasoning has crept into the core rules themselves.

So the DM in the OP might be making bad decisions, but it's not like he has a lot of tools to work with. Perhaps show him the business rules in DMG II and see if you guys can agree on something there. The idea that he says bad things about a +30 perform check seems weird though.

Economic things in DnD can be challenging to DM, so maybe help him out with some info and hopefully he'll step up and make some decisions that make sense. IMO the secret here, like with a lot of complicated DM decisions, is to try to be cooperative, and respect where the DM wants to go with the campaign.

 

[VirgilCaine]

The fact is, without dm control, any decently high level wizard can make large amounts of money just sitting around casting spells, which negates part of the appeal of adventuring.

Now maybe he's being a tad too harsh, but if you allow unchecked use of the fabricate spell for instance, you can quickly have a character whose raking in the moolaw.

Moolaw? Is that Jet Li's character in the animated parody of The One where everyone is a cow?

Anyway, you can't get unique magical items or resources sitting around casting spells for money and you aren't destroying demons, devils, evil cults of spellcasters, yuan-ti or whatnot. There's a lot more reasons to adventure besides money.

 

[grimwell]

Um... how about you sit down with your DM after the game session and ask him how you two can work together to find a way for your character to make some extra cash? Before you listen to the people who are saying to write him off, give him a chance to work with you outside of the game experience.

 

[painandgreed]

First, try asking your DM. If you can make money at all, he has to allow it. Sounds like you tried, but could be that you just made some bad mistakes. Tell your Dm that your character wants to make some money, and with his intellegence he should be able to come up with several ways to do it with his knowledge of the game world, and what woudl those be. If your DM says "adventuring", then you know not to even try, which is probably the case given some of the examples. Then you just need to find a DM that is into RPGs rather than miniature combat games.

 

[Blood Jester]

Not hearing all of the facts I would suggest not being too hard on the dm...

After "Your stories are gay, and elven, so no one wants to hear them." I think I have heard enough to judge the DM fairly well, actually.

 

[Endur]

What kinds of ways can a wizard/sorcerer use to increase his wealth?

Spin Straw into Gold a la Rumplestilkskin.

Or transform lead into gold, using alchemy.

Or view the future and invest in commodities that will become more valuable.

Or, er, loot ancient dungeons of their vast wealth.

 

[I'm A Banana]

There's a miscommunication, here.

Why do you need to make some coin? How have you made gold before? Are you around where you should be by wealth for your level? Can you afford to buy the potions and wands and sleep at a decent inn?

I mean, I'll let PC's earn a it of scratch on the side -- a few gp here and there from businesses or Perform checks. But they aren't going to pull in "I can afford a Rod of Lordly Might" gp for it. For that, they need to adventure. Because the big money lays in piles with dragons atop it.

At this level, all selling your services can bring you is enough to get a few inn rooms for free. To keep up with the kinds of challenges you'll be facing, you'll need a lot more gold than making magic walls in Podunk can get you. You'll need the kind of gold you need to risk your life for.

After all, this isn't Sim Fantasy Business. This is D&D.

IMC, the other players would probably tell you to stop wasting time and start saving the world. As long as you're living a somewhat-high-life like a mid-to-high level character would, you don't need any economic sidetreks to keep you in glit.

Of course, if it's part of your character concept, that's a bit different. But if it's just a means to make gold, stop twiddling your thumbs for pay and start slaying villains and taking their holdings.

 

[coyote6]

My guess would be that the GM isn't prepared or willing to run a game that involves running a business. Maybe he'd rather have purely "adventurer" PCs; you should ask him.

Me, I'd just say, "Make a Profession (merchant) roll; you get half that number in gp the first week." Of course, that's a small return, too, so that apparently wouldn't please many.

But beyond that, there aren't any rules for running a business in D&D, so GMing a would-be MBA/wizard is either (a) kind of complicated & a pain, as the GM has to figure out supply, demand, and all the other factors that determine the prosperity of a business venture (I wouldn't find that much fun, in anything except the very short term); or (b) free money for the PC, which could throw off the wealth levels, and/or annoy other players ("How come he gets free money?").

The Perform check thing sounds stupid; tell the GM you'll tell the repressed manly nobles some manly stories of manliness, and can I please have my 3d6 gp now?

 

[Mishihari Lord]

Like everyone else said, it sounds like your DM's acting like a jerk.

Now with that out of the way, I don't think I'd be down with your character making a lot of money from trade or performance either. DMing for players whose characters are adventuring and taking risks is fun and exciting. DMing for players whose characters are engaged in trade is dull, boring, and not an appropriate use of my recreational time.

As a once in a while thing it's fine - at a high level of abstraction, as in make a roll and get some gold. As a story element it's fine - e.g. a character may be stranded without funds and need to make a little money to get back home. As an ongoing thing or a means to get an advantage over the other PCs in wealth it's not fine. If I had a player who wanted to do this, I'd handle it out of game: just tell him, "That's not the sort of game I want to run." If he was really insistent then I'd tell him "Okay, you're making iron walls. Everyone else is going on an adventure. I'll get back to you at the end of the session"

If I can turn trade into an adventure though, that's great stuff. Stuff like protecting caravans you own from raiders or court politicking to get the rights to lucrative trade can make for great adventures.

 

[Blue Sky]

Some great responses. Thanks guys.

I think the main problem I have, is that I'm 14th level, and we're still doing "gopher quests". We're told to go here, fix the McGuffin, and return home. We're expected to do this for about 500 gp apiece, which I feel should be an insult to a character of our power. I expect a high level character to be able to change the world, not have to worry about a few thousand gold.

And I'm not trying to get ahead of the other players, or anything like that, but since 10th level, I've gotten around 20K gp. I've just now been able to afford to outfit myself with decent armor, let alone get anything extra to do cool stuff with.

I have other problems with this game, so I may end up quitting anyway, but it feels good to vent once or twice. Thanks, again.