Wizards "Character Generation" Article

[Nemesis Destiny]

Then you have to go into why that term was used as opposed to Marshall, etc....

Again, why 4th edition probably isnt the best to use to teach people with, and why there is an age range on it, and I do not think the younger players included in that fit, and such another reason parents should be involved.

Since we are talking about 7-11 year old in the article, what is the age range for the PHB?

I started playing when I was 7; I don't think age has much to do with it, but then I was always reading way above my level, according to the tests.

I also didn't need any guidance from my parents on the matter. I think most kids figure out the difference between make believe and reality around the same time they figure out Santa Claus isn't really a fat man in a red suit with flying reindeer pulling a sleigh full of presents around the world in one night.

The ones that have trouble with that, maybe, need some parental guidance. I had a friend in one of my earlier groups like that; he took it way too seriously, and his parents didn't want him playing. He had other issues though, and his oddball gaming habits were a symptom and not the root of the matter.

Most of my other friends' parents at that time also had a problem with the game, but it had nothing to do with their kids; mostly ignorance. We played with them anyway, and they mostly turned out alright.

So, I see what you're saying, but making it a blanket statement that all kids that young should have parental guidance when playing RPGs I think is a bit extreme.

One of the major reasons I liked it at the time was that it was written at a level I found challenging, and therefore engaging. Those books, and the game itself, I educated myself in ways that elementary schooling could not. I was thoroughly bored of the things aimed at my age group, and found them to be excessively "dumbed down" and unappealing. I liked that I had to look up some of the words in the PHB and DMG in the dictionary, or when they could not be found there, figure out what they meant in context.

That said, I was, and still am, cognizant of the fact that I was atypical in that regard, and agree with there being a suggested age of 12+ on the books. Putting a big ESRB-style stamp on it that says, "T for Teen" or whatever, and saying "you must be this old to buy/play it" would be a little much. Book of Vile Darkness, sure, I agree with the sticker they put on that for the most part, but the core books? Nah.

 

[shadzar]

I also didn't need any guidance from my parents on the matter.

It isn't what the kid wants or needs, but the parents right as opposed to some random someone else deciding when some and such things are brought up.

No matter how typical or atypical the kid is, the parents still have say over other people when what topics are brought up with them. Doing otherwise and without the permission of the parents can cause you to catch all kinds of flak from it.

 

[Nemesis Destiny]

It isn't what the kid wants or needs, but the parents right as opposed to some random someone else deciding when some and such things are brought up.

No matter how typical or atypical the kid is, the parents still have say over other people when what topics are brought up with them. Doing otherwise and without the permission of the parents can cause you to catch all kinds of flak from it.

Fair enough, I guess.

I presume that if my parents had an issue with it, they would have put a stop to it. I've seen peoples' parents try that though, and it doesn't usually work very well. I think people need to put more faith in their kids' ability to tell right from wrong. Treating them otherwise, to me implies that the parents don't have much faith in the job they did raising their own children.

I won't dispute a parent's right to raise their kids however they want, but I got the gist from the article that this was not something foisted upon these kids; it implied in its tone that these kids were there with their parents' consent.

I don't see how it could be done any other way without causing an uproar.

 

[Mapache]

Then you have to go into why that term was used as opposed to Marshall, etc....

Costello: "What are you playing?"
Abbot: "A Marshall."
Costello: "A martial what?"
Abbot: "Just a Marshall, no multiclassing."
Costello: "Okay, no multiclassing, but what's your first class?"
Abbot: "Marshall."
Costello: "Yes, I know your first class is martial, but what class is it?"
Abbot: "Marshall, just like you said."
Costello: "Gah, let's go play baseball instead!"
Abbot: "Next time, I'll just play an Abbot…"

 

[shadzar]

Abbot: "Next time, I'll just play an Abbot…"

Who?

 

[Vyvyan Basterd]

Then you have to go into why that term was used as opposed to Marshall, etc....

Again, why 4th edition probably isnt the best to use to teach people with, and why there is an age range on it, and I do not think the younger players included in that fit, and such another reason parents should be involved.

Since we are talking about 7-11 year old in the article, what is the age range for the PHB?

You will find that most items that target both children and adults list the intended age as 13+. That is more for legal reason to avoid the lead restrictions on toys and materials meant for younger children.

My son, starting at 8, had no problem understanding the concepts of 4E, nor the concept I espoused in ignoring the inherent meaning of the names of the classes. He wanted to emulate the magic-flinging warriors of his favorite cartoon series and did not hesitate to choose Wizard as his way to model it.

 

[occam]

"One of the least fun aspects of playing with kids is character creation. ... It’s not that kids can’t comprehend those rules. It’s just that they’re far too eager to start killing monsters and gaining superpowers to concentrate on dry mechanics."

You're doing it wrong.

I think the author is a rules lawyer, and rules lawyers are the worst and least fun thing that can happen to D&D.

What else can I say? If you think kids don't know how to create imaginary characters into which they pour their spirit and create drama and adventure, you are not observing and interacting with kids properly.

I really don't think that's what he was saying. In fact, other parts of the article, and the examples provided of characters created by the kids he's worked with, directly contradict the conclusion you drew.

All he was saying is that most kids like rolling dice, and find that some of the planning and interaction involved in the mechanics of character creation can try their patience. I've seen the same thing in the kids I've gamed with. In fact, a lot of them would rather skip over the initial role-playing in an encounter and get straight to the dice-rolling, which in D&D usually means combat.

Honestly, this one paragraph published by the official vendor of D&D depressed the hell out of me.

Uh... I don't think the situation's as dire as you're making it out to be.

 

[Incenjucar]

I don't have access to this article, but in a related matter, it would be really helpful for new players if every new class came with a recommended generic build from 1-30, perhaps one for each specific build path (bow ranger, melee ranger, beast ranger, etc.). Much of this is implied already, but it would be nice for the new folks if they had a specific build that was absolutely guaranteed to not be horrible in play.

 

[Nemesis Destiny]

I don't have access to this article, but in a related matter, it would be really helpful for new players if every new class came with a recommended generic build from 1-30, perhaps one for each specific build path (bow ranger, melee ranger, beast ranger, etc.). Much of this is implied already, but it would be nice for the new folks if they had a specific build that was absolutely guaranteed to not be horrible in play.

It was touched upon upthread a bit. The build suggestions given in the book should be such that the optimizers should have to actually try in order to do better.

Heck, even as a 4e novice when the game first came out, I could recognise that their suggestions were bad, and almost never built using them. The one time that I did follow their advice, I regretted it.