Wizards in a rough patch?

Turjan said:
No, but I want an overhaul that fits the mood. The Realms are still the Realms, even after all the changes from 2E to 3E. Dark Sun should get a similarly sympathetic treatment. Actually, 3E has lots of tools to make that happen. I'm not against changes in DS; probably I would change even more than most proposals that float around, but not in a way that you could easily integrate the setting into the FR, like it happened in Dragon.
Hey, all I know is that they advanced the timeline a thousand years forward.

Besides, I don't follow of FR stuff. I still do not allow firearms in my FR game, despite the setting's current timeline.

If you want to revert back to where 2e story material left off, that's okay.


Turjan said:
Right, here we have different opinions. I don't see something outside of D&D just because a few core rules are taken out of the setting and a few specific ones are added. If we take your definition, quite a few of the 2E settings wouldn't be D&D. Neither Spelljammer nor Birthright would meet those conditions (with Birthright, even I have problems :D), and I suppose it will be similar with other settings that I don't know.
Well, I've expressed my opinion about Spelljammer of old many times, so no need to go there.

But Birthright? I mean aside from the emphasis in godly bloodlines (particularly how it ties to the political system which attracted to me), what do you have against it?
 

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Ranger REG said:
But Birthright? I mean aside from the emphasis in godly bloodlines (particularly how it ties to the political system which attracted to me), what do you have against it?
I don't have anything against Birthright (very cool supplements). But what does it have to do with (A)D&D, seen in the light that you deny Dark Sun this status?
 

Turjan said:
The atmosphere of Dark Sun lives as much from what it contains as peculiarities as from what it does not contain. That's why even the author of the Dragon article, David Noonan himself, didn't like what the Dragon editor did with his write-up.
Yep. DS was intended to push what was 2e to the edge. The 3.5e version should do the same thing.

And that Dragon article was crap ;)
 

Turjan said:
I don't have anything against Birthright (very cool supplements). But what does it have to do with (A)D&D, seen in the light that you deny Dark Sun this status?
Very, very little. Whilst Birthright in some ways was more traditional than Dark Sun, it also tread a very fine line between stock D&D and something else entirely. Which was a good thing.
 

tetsujin28 said:
Yep. DS was intended to push what was 2e to the edge. The 3.5e version should do the same thing.

Why? 2e, AFAIK, was fairly inflexible on many points. 3e doesn't suffer the sins of 2e or 1e, so much as bears it's own. I mean, 3e was designed as more of a toolkit...creating a world setting like DS shouldn't be <i>that</i> much trouble. It certainly can't be that much more out of hand than, say, M&M or CoC or even Black Company or Midnight. How, for that matter, <I>do</i> you push 3.5e to the edge?
 

tetsujin28 said:
Very, very little. Whilst Birthright in some ways was more traditional than Dark Sun, it also tread a very fine line between stock D&D and something else entirely. Which was a good thing.
That's what I meant. D&D is a game of a group of people having a cooperative adventure. This stays basically the same, regardless whether the group wanders the Forgotten Realms or Athas. Birthright doesn't quite fit that mold.
 


tetsujin28 said:
Yep. DS was intended to push what was 2e to the edge. The 3.5e version should do the same thing.
Then both Eberron and Dark Sun should feel right at home with 3.5e (though I personally wouldn't slap a D&D logo on either of them, IMNSHO).
 


Ranger REG said:
Then both Eberron and Dark Sun should feel right at home with 3.5e (though I personally wouldn't slap a D&D logo on either of them, IMNSHO).
Except that Eberron is all-inclusive on purpose. It was specifically designed to take anything that 3.5 could throw at it. Dark Sun was exclusionary.
 

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