D&D 5E (2014) Wizard's new spells

[Stormonu]

...and the cleric just prays for whatever he wants from a list of 30 spells a level? No spellbook, no % to know, not even a divine "Thou shalt have..."?

 

[ZombieRoboNinja]

I think if you feel like you have to put that many limits on spells to keep them from breaking the game, you need to just go back and apply a nerf hammer to them.

Fighters quest for magic weapons, wizards for spells. Especially in 5e where apparently there are no +x implements to power up spell casting.

I'd say 2 spells per level automatically and more through questing would be a decent compromise... Especially since ATM wizards can only prepare two spells per spell level.

 

[Gorgoroth]

...

...and the cleric just prays for whatever he wants from a list of 30 spells a level? No spellbook, no % to know, not even a divine "Thou shalt have..."?

That's the way clerics have always worked. The versatility they gained was often worth the tradeoff in lower potency spells, for the most part. It's a balancing factor between them, and makes them play in practice quite differently. And having specialty clerics with access to certain domains was quite fun too, with some wizard spells on those lists.

Some players love playing fighters, some like the versatility of the cleric, especially if they're tailored with a good deity and backstory...clerics often end up being the party leader or face and roleplaying is a huge benefit. So what they do less damage in combat, they can still fight. In fact, with the right specialties you can get some of each. Which is a good thing. But the rules this time around seem really sparse and pared down.

I believe int-mod of free spells automagically appearing in your spellbook is too powerful. All of a sudden, you're in the depths of the dungeon and you can suddenly TP back home, disintegrate the cave troll, and ...etc? Without having come across a scroll? It's too similar to the cleric. I hated in 4e how clerics and wizards and fighters were all too similar in power structure and acquisition. But mostly I hated how incremental and silly those power bumps are. E.g. you get to fly at level 16...great. we quit playing by level 12, after three years.

Wizards should have to research their spells or learn to scribe them. If might suck if you fail your roll by 2%...better luck next time. Complain to the gods!! for all the good it'll do you. I don't want a game where poof the magic just flows into your spellbook, exactly the most powerful spells.

I wonder how many wizards will chose exactly the same spells...No randomness = no fun. Imagine a school of wizardry allowing their students free choice of spells...and one of the pupils in a class choses a really crappy spell instead of fly or invisibility. He'd be ostracized, or just outcast. Why do such a thing? Supposedly genius-level people don't invest in known bad investments, when there are "sure things" which are just plainly better. You can't balance it this way...your int mod free spells will almost always go to the top performing spells, if you're smart, otherwise your party will groan and you could very well all die. And if there's no risk of failure or barriers or penalties to spellcasting....why is everyone in the world with an int 13+ not casting 1st level spells, all the time?

"In a world full of people...only some want to fly...isn't that crazy?"

 

[Li Shenron]

...and the cleric just prays for whatever he wants from a list of 30 spells a level? No spellbook, no % to know, not even a divine "Thou shalt have..."?

This has always been a problem for me as well...

I would really like either that Clerics have a limited number of spells known, or alternatively that the generic cleric spell list is really small and at least half of the spells known come from the domain/deity.

 

[Li Shenron]

That's the way clerics have always worked. The versatility they gained was often worth the tradeoff in lower potency spells, for the most part. It's a balancing factor between them

A balancing factor that didn't balance them well, and that's why we got the infamous CoDzillas. It does work if you play core only. It stops working when you start allowing supplements, which inevitably flood the Clerics with free known spells, many of which get close enough to the power or capabilities of wizards when the designers start running short of ideas in those supplements. At least they could have a default rule for swapping core spells with non-core spells (which in fact is a "soft" rule for limiting known spells!)

I believe int-mod of free spells automagically appearing in your spellbook is too powerful. All of a sudden, you're in the depths of the dungeon and you can suddenly TP back home, disintegrate the cave troll, and ...etc? Without having come across a scroll?

Been there, done that... it's the old discussion about training rules. Truth is simply that some gaming groups don't want to bother with thinking about downtime, they want action and more action, thus training rules (or whatever rules would give an explanation for level advancement) are just dead weight for them. You have to assume that all their levelling-up improvements including new spells were already there, they had already learned them in the recent past, but the characters weren't able or confident enough to use them in-game.

I actually prefer to have more descriptions and explanations, probably like you also would like. But I just have to acknowledge that at best it should be optional, because most people prefer not to bother.

 

[Gorgoroth]

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Good points, but transcribing a scroll into your spell book is not something you need to go back to town for anyway, so a wizard could conceivably learn teleport from the scroll he just found. But researching it and it appearing in his book without any time at all, even ten minutes, are quite worlds apart in terms of story believability. If you want a spell to poof in your mind, be a sorcerer. If you have an idea for a spell (as a specialist wizard), it might germinate in your eureka moment the second you gain a spell level, and all that's left is the time to write it down.


It beggars the mind why you'd have up to 5 complex spells that you can't cast currently forming in your imagination without spending any game time on it, and then write them all in your spellbook at once. There is no intellectual work flow that I've seen that could even plausibly or reliably give such a sudden output of material at once. These things may operate as pipelines, or come out slower. All I'm saying is...one automatic spell per level is enough. I prefer wizards to quest in order to kill enemy mages or find ancient scrolls to learn powerful magic, or spend the time in a lab and library to do it.

D&D is not a videogame.

 

[Blackwarder]

Been there, done that... it's the old discussion about training rules. Truth is simply that some gaming groups don't want to bother with thinking about downtime, they want action and more action, thus training rules (or whatever rules would give an explanation for level advancement) are just dead weight for them. You have to assume that all their levelling-up improvements including new spells were already there, they had already learned them in the recent past, but the characters weren't able or confident enough to use them in-game.

I actually prefer to have more descriptions and explanations, probably like you also would like. But I just have to acknowledge that at best it should be optional, because most people prefer not to bother.

As I said in the OP, I think that those rules should be optional...

In the end it's a matter of taste, there are some who don't care or can't be bothered and there are those who do care, I wish a couple of rules (like the natural healing rules) that could please everyone...

Warder

 

[pemerton]

I believe int-mod of free spells automagically appearing in your spellbook is too powerful. All of a sudden, you're in the depths of the dungeon and you can suddenly TP back home, disintegrate the cave troll, and ...etc? Without having come across a scroll? It's too similar to the cleric. I hated in 4e how clerics and wizards and fighters were all too similar in power structure and acquisition. But mostly I hated how incremental and silly those power bumps are. E.g. you get to fly at level 16...great. we quit playing by level 12, after three years.

I don't really get this.

The probem with the playtest is that spell acquisition is too generous and not arbitrary enough. The problem with 4e is that power acquisition is too arbitrary and not generous enough. I guess you've got in mind some happy medium between the two, but I haven't worked out exactly what it is.

I don't want a game where poof the magic just flows into your spellbook, exactly the most powerful spells.

I wonder how many wizards will chose exactly the same spells

<snip>

You can't balance it this way...your int mod free spells will almost always go to the top performing spells

If there are "most powerful" or "top performing" spells then the designers haven't done their job. Either the spells need to be revisited for rebalancing, or the relevant "pillar" of the game needs to be revisited to ensure equality across the pillars.

 

[UngeheuerLich]

I´d like all spells not in the first PHB to be uncommon and not chosable on level up. Neither for the cleric, nor for the wizard.

So categorizing spells as common, uncommon or rare could help.

 

[tlantl]

I´d like all spells not in the first PHB to be uncommon and not chosable on level up. Neither for the cleric, nor for the wizard.

So categorizing spells as common, uncommon or rare could help.

Or you can say that if they aren't in the PHB then they don't exist. If they split the basic classes abd races up into separate books like they did in 4e then they are fools who don't want people like me buying their products.

I'm not going to buy four players hand books and three dungeon master's guides and a dozen other books except maybe an additional monster manual or two,( although I should be able to make the monsters I already have conform to the monster rules for next).

As for this packet's rules on spells, well I guess they'll need to come up with something else since this version isn't going to fly.