Wizards still cast Enchantment, Illusions, Necromancy

[Traycor]

This may have been mentioned already, but Rich Baker talked about the spells wizards will cast in the Designer thread on the Gleemax boards. Link

An aside on this one: Even though we want wizards to have a little less "concept sprawl" into all forms of arcane magic, that doesn't mean that every necromancy, enchantment, or illusion spell will be stripped out of their spell lists. Your core D&D wizard will still have a smattering of classic enchantments, like Sleep and Charm Person and Hold Monster. Ditto with classic illusions and classic necromancy spells. You won't be able to really build a specialist Enchanter, but you can still build a wizard with a couple of handy enchantments.

Specific spells mentioned: Sleep, Charm Person, Hold Monster
General spells mentioned: "classic illusions and classic necromancy spells"

And the mention that while you couldn't build a wizard that specializes in Enchantment, you could still have some "handy enchantments." I like this bunches and lotses. It seems that the fears of wizards being nothing but bazookas were unfounded

 

[The Little Raven]

Another thing to keep in mind that since everyone gets powers, they don't have the space to reprint every single wizards spell from 3e's core without giving wizards way more options than everyone else. Since they have a smaller space, they have to make sure they focus that space on wizards filling their role as Controllers before worrying about how far they can branch out.

 

[Vigilance]

What a shock.

Maybe now everyone will stop getting the vapors over every little half inference from a podcast somewhere?

Nah!

 

[Bishmon]

I'm not sure how relieved this will make people. I mean, a smattering of classic spells? They explicitly said it's not possible to use the wizard to make an enchanter or an illusionist, so I think there's still going to be some justifiable concern that all this does is take wizards from blasters to blasters with a couple other tricks. That still falls short of a lot of people's vision for a D&D wizard, and undoubtedly falls far short of 3E's wizard.

 

[Traycor]

That still falls short of a lot of people's vision for a D&D wizard, and undoubtedly falls far short of 3E's wizard.

Well yes, anyone who wants the 4E wizard to be the wizard that masters all forms of magic will be highly disappointed. They won't be the best at all forms of magic anymore, espcially since Enchanters, Conjurors, Necromancers, Illusionists will all be their own sperate classes later on.

 

[Vigilance]

I'm not sure how relieved this will make people. I mean, a smattering of classic spells? They explicitly said it's not possible to use the wizard to make an enchanter or an illusionist, so I think there's still going to be some justifiable concern that all this does is take wizards from blasters to blasters with a couple other tricks. That still falls short of a lot of people's vision for a D&D wizard, and undoubtedly falls far short of 3E's wizard.

I think, as long as there are specialty classes at some point, that those concerns aren't justified though.

One class should not be able to do all that stuff imo.

 

[Rechan]

That still falls short of a lot of people's vision for a D&D wizard, and undoubtedly falls far short of 3E's wizard.

It falls short of 3e's Wizard because 3e's Wizard was "Anything you can do I can do better, I can do anything better than you (except necromancy)."

The vision of a D&D wizard is so encompassing that they can play everyone's game except healing (and some people want them to do that!).

 

[Rechan]

Now is when I whip out this quote from R&C:

With the skill to fool enemies with illusory magic and to influence them with mental trickery, a bard can make his foes work against themselves. The bard makes his enemies distrust their eyes, their ears and even their allies. And that's why he's truly dangerous.

Sounds to me like the bard's offense is illusion/enchantment. Hell, the class may be the illusionist and enchanter class - you pick the route you go at start.

And, the passage also talks about how bards are sages, understanding legends, lore and history. So I think one could play a lorekeeper, a socialite, or a wizard, while using the Bard class.

Bards will likely have illusions, Confusion, etc. Psionics will likely get the Domination/Modify Memory/Telepathy type stuff.

 

[Traycor]

Sounds to me like the bard's offense is illusion/enchantment. Hell, the class may be the illusionist and enchanter class - you pick the route you go at start.

*snip*

Bards will likely have illusions, Confusion, etc. Psionics will likely get the Domination/Modify Memory/Telepathy type stuff.

This.

 

[Orius]

Honestly, I never bother much beyond sleep, hold, or charm spells anyway when I play a wizard. I prefer fireball, preferably in cramped spaces.

I want the wizard to reamian flexible, but it doen't make too much of a difference if they strip out a lot of underused spells. How often does something like unseen servant get used in most games? I have plenty of material that I can just work back in, unless the magi system is so radicall changed thhat it becomes more trouble than it's worth. And most of the time, players focus o combat spells anyway.