Wizardy types in M&M

[Revenge of the Bjorn]

Has anyone played or stated out a wizard type character for Mutants and Masterminds? With the high cost of the sorcery power it just doesn't seem reasonable, cause there's hardly any room for other powers. I am looking at this the wrong way? Any advice? Even a link to a good Dr. Strange or Dr. Fate Conversion I could use as model?

 

[DanMcS]

Actually, the sorcery power is very cost-effective. You get one power each from each category for 1 point/power, up to 7 categories; you can do less since "forbidden school" or something is a 1-point flaw. But then every power on the list is available to you if you need it, for the cost of a hero point. You end up with a very versatile character, and you don't really need "other powers", since you have so many to begin with- a defense, an attack, a movement power, an enchantment, an illusion, a divination, and something else, I'm working from memory. If you want more, though, sorcery is 7/level, and you get 15 per level to use, so you have plenty left to play with.

I made up a guy, he was the son of a demon or angel or something, he used sorcery, had a flaming sword that he could summon to his hand, and was all-around entertaining.

 

[Von Ether]

Actually, the power as is pretty much is a Doctor "x" model, which that magic is a pool of super powers. I mean look at the mystic villian in the book, didn't the cape look familar?

You can also take various flaws to make the power cheaper and add flavor to the character

Device: Spellbook (you have to gesture anyway, this just give you an excuse to gesture)

Uses & Degrade: "You must come from that dimension know as DeeandDee."

Slow: You magic is more ritual in nature

Ineffective: "My holy powers don't work against demons!!!"

Full Effect: "It's a spell, not a volume knob!!"

Others Only: Your healing can't be used for selfish pourposes.

Limited: Elemental Mage that only manipulate Earth, Water, Air, or Fire

 

[Revenge of the Bjorn]

Hmm. Alright I guess it is better than I thought. My only concern here is that its one power and can kind've be lost/nullified easily, but that could certainly make things a bit more interesting. I tried to make a wizard but had a rough time of fitting it, I may've done the math wrong. Thanks for the help.

 

[Von Ether]

My only concern here is that its one power and can kind've be lost/nullified easily, but that could certainly make things a bit more interesting.

No more than Power Suit guy who get's EMP Neutrallized or a guy who has made his power's cheaper buying them all as Extras to his Mutant Energy Beam attack, which gets Neutralized by a antimutagen virus.

It's part of the design of Mutants and Masterminds. You can make things much cheaper by creating a package, but then you put you eggs in one basket.

I tried to make a wizard but had a rough time of fitting it, I may've done the math wrong.

Don't tease, show us the math. Things are easier in MnM, but you have to think differently than with other RPGs.

It reminds of thread where a Power Suit guy was going crazy trying to create several seperate weapons, a mini-gun, a flamethrower and a missle pack, for his suit.

I suggested that he buy one power, Weapon (ranged) with different area effects at different ranges. For example, if he had Weapon 10, he'd buy a cone template for the first level, Multifire for levels 2-6 and area effect for 7-10. The math was identical to buying 1 Weapon with only 1 Extra, but he got three different weapons out of it, both with minimum and maximum ranges.

 

[d4]

Full Effect: "It's a spell, not a volume knob!!"

yeah, but mine goes to eleven.

I suggested that he buy one power, Weapon (ranged) with different area effects at different ranges. For example, if he had Weapon 10, he'd buy a cone template for the first level, Multifire for levels 2-6 and area effect for 7-10. The math was identical to buying 1 Weapon with only 1 Extra, but he got three different weapons out of it, both with minimum and maximum ranges.

that doesn't sound very efficient to me...

the way i understand the rules, that means his flamethrower is only a Weapon +1, his machine gun a Weapon +5, and his missile launcher a Weapon +4 -- since if he wants to use a partial extra, he can only use the ranks that are associated with it. and against any kind of real threat, a weapon at those levels isn't going to do much...

a better way might be to make one weapon the base, and make the other two power stunts off of it, since i'd assume he can't use more than one at a time. shouldn't be too much more expensive that way.

 

[Von Ether]

yeah, but mine goes to eleven.


that doesn't sound very efficient to me...

the way i understand the rules, that means his flamethrower is only a Weapon +1, his machine gun a Weapon +5, and his missile launcher a Weapon +4 -- since if he wants to use a partial extra, he can only use the ranks that are associated with it. and against any kind of real threat, a weapon at those levels isn't going to do much...

a better way might be to make one weapon the base, and make the other two power stunts off of it, since i'd assume he can't use more than one at a time. shouldn't be too much more expensive that way.

That's another way to do it, definately, just depends on whether you want to be a "mook mower" or use your ordinance against other supers. I think Rifles are +5 in the game, so my "quick and dirty" method leans more towards "riot control." On the other hand, I'll be happy to use your math as well.

On a related topic, in most supers games does it seem there are two versions of every concept, as in a mook mower and a "vs. supers" versions?

I say that because while I usually assume most PC are made as "vs. supers" concept, whether it's brick or a blaster, my players seem facinated with the idea of laying low armies of minions instead.

 

[Keeper of Secrets]

Actually, I believe Steve Kenson recently put out something regarding Sorcery which makes it even less *cost effective*. There are a couple powers you can chose from that are normally bought at 3 points per level. Maybe Healing is one of them (the book is not in front of me). In any event, if that is one of the spells you pick to put in the package it is effectively 'half power.' So if healing is one of the spells in your package and the power is level 10, all the powers within the package are level 10 (except healing which would be at level 5).

 

[Revenge of the Bjorn]

I believe I scrapped the original paper, but I'll try it again and try to have it back by tomorrow. I was working for a PL 15 character (high level game) and I was trying to have sorcery at Level 15 (Strongbad Teen Girl Squad Voice: "Totally Maxxored") But like I said, I'll try again.

 

[d4]

That's another way to do it, definately, just depends on whether you want to be a "mook mower" or use your ordinance against other supers. I think Rifles are +5 in the game, so my "quick and dirty" method leans more towards "riot control." On the other hand, I'll be happy to use your math as well.

gotcha. you're right -- your version would work quite well as crowd control. i was just worried that it wouldn't be useful against other supers, as you allude to.

On a related topic, in most supers games does it seem there are two versions of every concept, as in a mook mower and a "vs. supers" versions?

yep. and there's always approximately 320,309,193 different ways of building any conceivable power. that's one of the things i like about supers gaming.

I say that because while I usually assume most PC are made as "vs. supers" concept, whether it's brick or a blaster, my players seem facinated with the idea of laying low armies of minions instead.

that type of character can be a lot of fun. take a look at Raven from the core rulebook or Freedom City. she's not particularly effective against other supers with high damage saves or Protection, but she could flatten a room of mooks faster than Uma Thurman.