Pathfinder 1E Wizkids should take the Pathfinder 1.0 ruleset and publish their own RPG.

[Parmandur]

But why? CoC is the BRP system with sanity and mythos monsters... why is it a better system than 5e using sanity from the DMG and creatures from the Far Realm for simulating an investigative Cthulhu story?

EDIT: And do those advantages offset cost in money, time, brainspace, familiarity, etc.?

EDIT 2: It's interesting you brought up this example as I am currently running this type of adventure to kick off a plane exploration campaign in my current game.

Not to mention, Sandy Peterson who created CoC, has made a 5E Cthulu Mythos supplement.

 

[Campbell]

CoC is an extremely bad example. It belongs to a class of design where the game mechanics are really a thin veneer over GM fiat. It is basically Stat + Skill = Whatever. The game never really directly impacts the fiction. It never tells us what happens. Almost everyone I know who advocates that System Does Not Matter plays these sorts of games.

 

[Parmandur]

CoC is an extremely bad example. It belongs to a class of design where the game mechanics are really a thin veneer over GM fiat. It is basically Stat + Skill = Whatever. The game never really directly impacts the fiction. It never tells us what happens. Almost everyone I know who advocates that System Does Not Matter plays these sorts of games.

Yes...? And...?

 

[Aldarc]

What are these other games?
Even though you do not find them subjectively innovative does not mean they are not objectively innovative. I know that AIME has mechanics and solutions that are not found in 5e.

I have access to Pugmire and Mau, Odyssey of the Dragonlords, Arcanis, Midgard, Fateforge, Esper Genesis, and Adventures in Middle Earth. I'm still not sure what innovations that I am supposed to be "wowed" by in these books. Do you have some particular examples of innovations in mind? That said, I don't think that arguing that they pass a technical definition of innovation - creating something that previously didn't exist - really is all that helpful to discussion since it seems to want to equivocate between the two senses of meaning here.

And the players who bring well written and well developed 3pp material for your 5e games. What happens then? Do they just get kicked to the side because of your fatigue and disdain for 5e potentially borgifying the market?

Whether or not a GM approves 3pp materials for their games seems like an orthogonal issue.

But why? CoC is the BRP system with sanity and mythos monsters... why is it a better system than 5e using sanity from the DMG and creatures from the Far Realm for simulating an investigative Cthulhu story?

Because one has far more materials, support, and cultivated experience for simulating an investigative Cthulhu story than the other while also not requiring the person in question to reinvent the wheel to make it work for 5e. Also, I think that there is a difference between having a MM full of monsters from the Cthulhu Mythos and having a game that's good for running an HP Lovecraft-inspired 1920s pulp investigative game.

 

[Parmandur]

Because one has far more materials, support, and cultivated experience for simulating an investigative Cthulhu story than the other while also not requiring the person in question to reinvent the wheel to make it work for 5e. Also, I think that there is a difference between having a MM full of monsters from the Cthulhu Mythos and having a game that's good for running an HP Lovecraft-inspired 1920s pulp investigative game.

Sure, there's more to it than that, hence why @Imaro brings up the DMG tweaks meant for this specific genre.

 

[Campbell]

Yes...? And...?

That this particular alignment of player and GM roles is not a universal feature of RPG design.

I can see how you might think system does not matter if your only experience is with games that barely contribute anything to the fiction and where the GM, cast as lead storyteller, has the authority to supersede them at anytime.

That's like the opposite of what I want from either side of the screen. I want us all to be discovering what happens through play together. I want to be just as bound by the rules of the game as any other player. There will be times when I need to make judgment calls, but they should be clearly defined.

There are many games that support this and provide meaningfully different play experiences. In the way I choose to play system matters a great deal.

 

[Imaro]

Because one has far more materials, support, and cultivated experience for simulating an investigative Cthulhu story than the other while also not requiring the person in question to reinvent the wheel to make it work for 5e. Also, I think that there is a difference between having a MM full of monsters from the Cthulhu Mythos and having a game that's good for running an HP Lovecraft-inspired 1920s pulp investigative game.

Support like?? And what wheel is being re-invented in 5e?? You've written an entire post without actually stating why the CoC rpg is better system wise than 5e. So I'll ask again... what makes the system better?

 

[darjr]

Not to mention, Sandy Peterson who created CoC, has made a 5E Cthulu Mythos supplement.

What?!? Link please! PLEASE!?!

 

[Parmandur]

What?!? Link please! PLEASE!?!

Here you go:

Sandy Petersen’s Cthulhu Mythos for 5e Fantasy | Petersen Games

petersengames.com

 

[Parmandur]

That this particular alignment of player and GM roles is not a universal feature of RPG design.

I can see how you might think system does not matter if your only experience is with games that barely contribute anything to the fiction and where the GM, cast as lead storyteller, has the authority to supersede them at anytime.

That's like the opposite of what I want from either side of the screen. I want us all to be discovering what happens through play together. I want to be just as bound by the rules of the game as any other player. There will be times when I need to make judgment calls, but they should be clearly defined.

There are many games that support this and provide meaningfully different play experiences. In the way I choose to play system matters a great deal.

If you need to cordon off D&D and CoC as "bad examples" to make a point about RPGs "in general," that's a bit strange.

But that misses the point that CoC, the oldest and most successful horror RPG of all time, is based on BRP, which is Runequest, which is a homebrew mod for OD&D.