Pathfinder 1E Wizkids should take the Pathfinder 1.0 ruleset and publish their own RPG.

[Imaro]

I never said that 5E was or was-not mediocre. I said that popularity and opinion are just those. Simply saying something does not make it objectively true.

Personally, my opinion of 5E is that it is a garbage fire, and a shining example of how not to do D&D. Since my perspective is informed by critical analysis, I feel at least as confident in my opinion as you do in yours; even though they are both merely opinions.

Haters gonna hate...

 

[Campbell]

My personal opinion is that Fifth Edition is very good at being Fifth Edition, which is a broadly enjoyable game that hits the right high notes of Dungeons and Dragons, particularly if late AD&D 2nd Edition and 3rd Edition are your reference points. It feels like a sleeker version of Second Edition to me.

I think it does a rather poor job of actually recapturing the play experience of Classic Dungeons and Dragons.

I also think it is no more broadly flexible or any easier to house rule than any other mainstream roleplaying game.

I also feel it gets too much credit for its simplicity. It's simpler than Third Edition and Fourth Edition, but when you look at the complexity of say a Battle Master Fighter, Monk, Sorcerer or Paladin in play it is not an especially simple game.

Basically it is good at what it is good at. There is plenty of room for games that are good at other things in the market.

 

[Mistwell]

Okey-dokey pokey, I'll just enjoy my garbage fire.

People light garbage fires because they're easy to start and just fine at doing what they're for - keeping you warm

 

[Nilbog]

For me personally, 5e has opened the door to many other systems, I've never purchased such a wide variety of products as i am now and I've been gaming 25 years
The reason? 5e's release schedule and product choice, when I was playing 4e books were coming thick and fast and all of them were pretty much 'must buys' for my group, however with 5e and its slower release schedule (and focus on adventures) I'm finding that my budget is freed up to buy other products (I tend not to buy many 3pp for a system) so in the last year or so I've branched out into Starfinder, WHFRP, FFG Star Wars, Unity, Tales from the loop and Pathfinder 2e.
Not all of these will get played, however we have started a spin off Starfinder campaign, are playtesting (and really enjoying PF2E) and have a Star wars one off coming up.
so in my incredibly small sample size 5e has been good for other systems

 

[Parmandur]

My personal opinion is that Fifth Edition is very good at being Fifth Edition, which is a broadly enjoyable game that hits the right high notes of Dungeons and Dragons, particularly if late AD&D 2nd Edition and 3rd Edition are your reference points. It feels like a sleeker version of Second Edition to me.

I think it does a rather poor job of actually recapturing the play experience of Classic Dungeons and Dragons.

I also think it is no more broadly flexible or any easier to house rule than any other mainstream roleplaying game.

I also feel it gets too much credit for its simplicity. It's simpler than Third Edition and Fourth Edition, but when you look at the complexity of say a Battle Master Fighter, Monk, Sorcerer or Paladin in play it is not an especially simple game.

Basically it is good at what it is good at. There is plenty of room for games that are good at other things in the market.

5E is not simple, it is elegant. Big difference. It is no better or worse for role-playing than any other system: system doesn't matter, except for convenience in facilitating play, and having a common system is convenient.

 

[Campbell]

5E is not simple, it is elegant. Big difference. It is no better or worse for role-playing than any other system: system doesn't matter, except for convenience in facilitating play, and having a common system is convenient.

The only possible way that system could not matter is if accept the fact that it is nonbinding. I wholly reject this notion. This is not a feature of the way I play roleplaying games. I cherish the moments when system gets in the way and we all get to experience the story/game together rather than any particular person deciding how things should go. I am broadly suspicious of anyone who claims to be making decisions for the sake of "the story" as if they could know what is best for it because we should all be playing to find out what that is.

For my money the entire purpose of these games is to regularly and routinely get in the way. They introduce to the fiction things that wholly unwelcome, but nonetheless compelling. Bits of fiction that no one at the table would choose, but we are all better for. Stuff that shifts the narrative in completely new directions that all the players, including the GM, need to respond to.

You cannot have real tension or real game play if the rules are nonbinding.

It may not matter to you, but it is deeply important to me.

 

[Aldarc]

5E is not simple, it is elegant. Big difference. It is no better or worse for role-playing than any other system: system doesn't matter, except for convenience in facilitating play, and having a common system is convenient.

Hogwash.

 

[Jer]

It feels like a sleeker version of Second Edition to me.

It does to me too in a lot of ways - which is probably why I feel so ambivalent about it. The 2e era was when my group realized we weren't enjoying playing D&D anymore and really started looking for other systems to play. 5e really does feel in a whole lot of ways like 2e ideas of what D&D "should" be atop a more modern resolution mechanic and vocabulary for talking about character abilities.

 

[Zardnaar]

I never said that 5E was or was-not mediocre. I said that popularity and opinion are just those. Simply saying something does not make it objectively true.

Personally, my opinion of 5E is that it is a garbage fire, and a shining example of how not to do D&D. Since my perspective is informed by critical analysis, I feel at least as confident in my opinion as you do in yours; even though they are both merely opinions.

It does to me too in a lot of ways - which is probably why I feel so ambivalent about it. The 2e era was when my group realized we weren't enjoying playing D&D anymore and really started looking for other systems to play. 5e really does feel in a whole lot of ways like 2e ideas of what D&D "should" be atop a more modern resolution mechanic and vocabulary for talking about character abilities.

No biggie 5E won't appeal to everyone. I don't really like RPGs but like D&D and Star Wars RPG.

 

[Jer]

No biggie 5E won't appeal to everyone. I don't really like RPGs but like D&D and Star Wars RPG.

I mean, I want to make it clear that unlike Saelorn I don't think 5e is a "garbage fire" (which is what quoting the two of us together like that makes it look like) - I'm very literally ambivalent towards it. On a day to day basis I can go back and forth between "fine" and "meh".

I mostly play 5e now because I teach kids how to play RPGs and they want to play the same game everyone else is playing. My regular group actually mostly refuses to play 5e due to some bad con experience two of them had during the roll out of the game that convinced them that the game was not for them so we stick with 13th Age for our main campaign and various other systems for one shots or miniseries for when we need a palate cleanser with something that isn't High Fantasy.