Wizzie/Sorc vs Bladesinger vs Spellsword @ level 20. Help please!
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Eridanis
Bard 7/Mod (ret) 10/Mgr 3
BoEM is the Book of Eldritch Might, published by Malhavoc Press.
www.montecook.com
I personally think it's one of the best d20 supplements out there. Well worth the $5 pdf, or the $11 (?) print version.
www.montecook.com
I personally think it's one of the best d20 supplements out there. Well worth the $5 pdf, or the $11 (?) print version.
Chun-tzu
First Post
Avatar28 said:
Do you mean Armor of Nimbleness, from Magic of Faerun? Dex bonus increases by +2, and armor check penalties are reduced by 1.
BoEM is the Book of Eldritch Might, written by Monte Cook (one of the main designers of D&D 3E). They're both available as Adobe Acrobat files, $5 for the first one and $7 for the second. They're also available in print, and they're both very nice supplements.
You might also want to consider a 20th level Sorcerer whose spells are chosen based on a particular theme, like pyromancer or mysterious shadowmage or summoner. Sorcerers are easier to play, and don't have the same flexibility as Wizards, but are still highly formidable.
Hmm, how about something like
FTR1/Bladesinger3/Wiz12/Spellsword4? Hmm, no, that still doesn't seem quite right, durn it. That would give me up to Level 7 spells though, although I'd prefer level 8. Not sure if that increase in fighting ability will be worth it though.
+13 BAB vs +10 for the 20th level wiz. I would be able to use all weapons/armor though. I should be able to get away with something like a +5 mithrial chainmail and no chance of arcane spell failure. Combine with a high dex for expertise and a keen weapon with improved critical and that's a 15-20 crit threat. Still not my ideal though. Hrrrmmm.
FTR1/Bladesinger3/Wiz12/Spellsword4? Hmm, no, that still doesn't seem quite right, durn it. That would give me up to Level 7 spells though, although I'd prefer level 8. Not sure if that increase in fighting ability will be worth it though.
+13 BAB vs +10 for the 20th level wiz. I would be able to use all weapons/armor though. I should be able to get away with something like a +5 mithrial chainmail and no chance of arcane spell failure. Combine with a high dex for expertise and a keen weapon with improved critical and that's a 15-20 crit threat. Still not my ideal though. Hrrrmmm.
Squire James
Explorer
I suggest a Wiz20, specializing in Transmutation. Polymorph Self into a giant followed by a Tenser's Transformation will do well when you really need to hit something really, really hard! A wizard may never really match a fighter in sheer combat power, but the spells they choose can get them real close for a while.
Definitely up that Intelligence. You should be able to swing an Int of 34 (18 original +5 inherent +6 enchantment +5 level). Then get Greater Spell Focus (Transmutation), and look at that save DC on Polymorph Any Object... that's DC 34! Even high-end dragons are known to fail such saves from time to time. Yeah you burned ~250K gp on Int boosts, but it's money well spent!
Definitely up that Intelligence. You should be able to swing an Int of 34 (18 original +5 inherent +6 enchantment +5 level). Then get Greater Spell Focus (Transmutation), and look at that save DC on Polymorph Any Object... that's DC 34! Even high-end dragons are known to fail such saves from time to time. Yeah you burned ~250K gp on Int boosts, but it's money well spent!
Victim
First Post
I'd like to point something out regarding the rather martial image of your character. In terms of raw combat abilities, a 20th level wizard has a slight edge over a 10th level warrior. While the wizard can't use superior weapons and armor, a PC wizard will have many times more magical items, enough to give the wizard a substancial edge. While you won't be beating up big dragons without a specific build and Tenser's, a 20th level wizard that doesn't completely ignore physical attributes can beat up normal guards, vets, and probably even some elite guards without resorting to spellcasting. All you'd need is a single fighter level or martial weapon proficiency so you have to use a lame weapon.
In terms of raw power, the wizard is pretty damn good. Powerful spells, and great flexiblity. However, if you go Epic, there are some complications. Relative to character wealth, SR items become cheaper and cheaper, allowing both other characters and villains increasing levels of SR. Even stuff like Epic Spell Penetration stops cutting it. Also, the monsters have Super SR too. Pseodonaturals are especially bad because they have SR equal to 5 times HD - a tiny increase in monster power can result in a huge change in your ability to land spells. Other people have complained about saving throw DCs as well.
Between True Strike and taking Penetrate DR at level 21, a melee character can ease through the pains of growing into epic levels. However, there's no such work around for a character relying on direct spells. I hope you like to buff others, or summon stuff. But summoning sutff isn't bad at all, and custom Epic summons might be a cool way to go.
While the Spellsword isn't as great as a Persistent spell using cleric, it's still pretty dang good. I can put up a 15th level spellsword based character if someone wants to see it. While it's not exactly a smackdown, I think it's both effective in combat and fairly versatile.
In terms of raw power, the wizard is pretty damn good. Powerful spells, and great flexiblity. However, if you go Epic, there are some complications. Relative to character wealth, SR items become cheaper and cheaper, allowing both other characters and villains increasing levels of SR. Even stuff like Epic Spell Penetration stops cutting it. Also, the monsters have Super SR too. Pseodonaturals are especially bad because they have SR equal to 5 times HD - a tiny increase in monster power can result in a huge change in your ability to land spells. Other people have complained about saving throw DCs as well.
Between True Strike and taking Penetrate DR at level 21, a melee character can ease through the pains of growing into epic levels. However, there's no such work around for a character relying on direct spells. I hope you like to buff others, or summon stuff. But summoning sutff isn't bad at all, and custom Epic summons might be a cool way to go.
While the Spellsword isn't as great as a Persistent spell using cleric, it's still pretty dang good. I can put up a 15th level spellsword based character if someone wants to see it. While it's not exactly a smackdown, I think it's both effective in combat and fairly versatile.
Really? Change into a Giant huh? Schweeet. Might not be too bad then. Still, I was thinking about a level of Bladesinger (that AC bonus from INT is nice, especially bumped up to 34 as suggested above) and enough spellsword to ignore most of my arcane spell casting chance from a Mithril chain shirt. Not sure how many levels that would take.
Michael Tree
First Post
I agree that playing a high level wizard may be overwhelming, considering the vast choice of spells. So why not play a sorcerer. 
Seriously. It'll give you even more vast power than a wizard, without having to worry about which spells to prepare. Starting at 20th level, it's a relatively easy task to decide which spells you want to know. In addition, by combining Sorcerer levels with levels in one or two prestige classes that give cool bonuses of their own, your character can be even more interesting and effective. I'm particularly fond of Elemental Savants, which give you major bonuses at 10th level, including immunity to flanking and sneak attacks.
If you have Oriential Adventures, play a Sorcerer 10 / Witch Hunter 10, which will give you a BAB of +15, decent hit points, and spellcasting equivalent to a 15th level caster.
If you want to play a bladesinger, you're best off taking at least 4 levels of fighter, so you can get Specialization and qualify for Epic specialization. Since BS spellcasting doesn't stack with wizard spellcasting, you don't lose a lot of ability that way.
Seriously. It'll give you even more vast power than a wizard, without having to worry about which spells to prepare. Starting at 20th level, it's a relatively easy task to decide which spells you want to know. In addition, by combining Sorcerer levels with levels in one or two prestige classes that give cool bonuses of their own, your character can be even more interesting and effective. I'm particularly fond of Elemental Savants, which give you major bonuses at 10th level, including immunity to flanking and sneak attacks.
If you have Oriential Adventures, play a Sorcerer 10 / Witch Hunter 10, which will give you a BAB of +15, decent hit points, and spellcasting equivalent to a 15th level caster.
If you want to play a bladesinger, you're best off taking at least 4 levels of fighter, so you can get Specialization and qualify for Epic specialization. Since BS spellcasting doesn't stack with wizard spellcasting, you don't lose a lot of ability that way.
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