Wizzie/Sorc vs Bladesinger vs Spellsword @ level 20. Help please!

[Michael Tree]

If you have MM-II, polymorph into a Firbolg giant.

If you play a straight wizard or sorcerer, Shapechange into a Solar and tenser's transformation.

 

[dead_radish]

Cleric of the Red Knight (Planning and War) 1/Wizard 18/Spelldancer 1.

Every morning, you wake up. You spend about 10-15 dancing about like a ninny, and you are under the influence of a triple empowered Tensor's Transformation, a Persistant Divine Favor, a triple cat's grace, keen edge, Greater Magic Weapon +5 on your flaming burst/shocking burst/icy burst/sonic burst bastard sword. your persistant Speedy Movement (A version of haste you researched that has a personal range, not touch), and then you go ahead and time stop people, do whatever you want, then kill them later. Or you just Enervate them massively, and stab them repeatedly (don't forget your rings of spell storing, with Greater Dispel Magic). Quickened True Strikes aren't bad either.



High level casters (I'd personally go uber-cleric, but that's just me) can beat nearly any other class, if they want.

 

[ConcreteBuddha]

Go Bladesinger all the way. You want a fighter BAB because BAB doesn't increase after L20. You'll get four attacks, a free action bladesinger spell every round, and awesome AC.


Spellsword: Channel spell and Spellsword cache blow. The only neat ability is the Ignore spell failure, which you need ten levels of the class to use mithral full plate and a mithral large shield. The only reason to go with this class is in case you are sick of longswords.




And wizards are so cliche...

 

[Avatar28]

Cleric of the Red Knight (Planning and War) 1/Wizard 18/Spelldancer 1.

Every morning, you wake up. You spend about 10-15 dancing about like a ninny, and you are under the influence of a triple empowered Tensor's Transformation, a Persistant Divine Favor, a triple cat's grace, keen edge, Greater Magic Weapon +5 on your flaming burst/shocking burst/icy burst/sonic burst bastard sword. your persistant Speedy Movement (A version of haste you researched that has a personal range, not touch), and then you go ahead and time stop people, do whatever you want, then kill them later. Or you just Enervate them massively, and stab them repeatedly (don't forget your rings of spell storing, with Greater Dispel Magic). Quickened True Strikes aren't bad either.



High level casters (I'd personally go uber-cleric, but that's just me) can beat nearly any other class, if they want.

Nice. Interesting idea. Well, I've decided to give in to the needs of the party and go for at least a 17th-18th level spellcaster. Sooo, I was thinking about 1 level of bladesinger (+12 to AC anyone?) and maybe 1 of something else. I'll be working on the character throughout the day here at work probably. But the only books I've got are the three core books, plus whatever I can download from the net (I already have the Bladesinger thing from the WOTC site). So I have to work within those limits, unfortunately.

 

[Victim]

Fighter would probably be another good level. It will help with your Bladesinger requirements giving you longsword prof and a bonus fighting feat.

 

[Avatar28]

Suppose I were to look at taking about 10 levels of wizard and then 10 of some prestiege class (possibly bladesinger or duelist or even spellsword). Obviously I'll lose out on 6-9 level spells. If I were to then starting at level 21 go back to advancing wizard levels, would I continue to learn new spells and get new spells per day? Or would that stagnate and I'd be stuck with just the lower level magics?

If I DO stick with primarily wizard, I thought about creating a sword of true strike, much like the bow that's in sword and fist.

Something like a +3 or so with a couple of special abilities. I would probably craft it myself to save on cost. I've got to be careful not to spend all my money on equipment though. Still need some for my spells. And I've no idea how much it would cost to have a tower or something somewhere, but I'm assuming that comes out of my starting gold? What if I say I found an abandoned tower and took it over?

 

[Shard O'Glase]

a post here reminded me SR and saves thing for wizards can be a big issue at epic levels as I understand it. I'm not sure how bad it gets, but if you start as a sun elf(20 int), take magic prodigy, archmage prestige class(take all the spell power boosts) spell penetration, greater SP, and epic SP, and take your pick of other spell power prestige classes(elementalist one is T&B gives +3 over 10 levels(for your eleemnt), shadow mage in forgotten realms the same(for shadow spells), red wizzard gives up to +5, I think some other prestige class also gives +5ish arcane devotee or something.

Anyways you can end up getting fairly easily by 20th level +10 to spell penetration rolls, maybe up to +15, by 30th level you probably could have in the range of +18-20 for a 1d20+38-40. I'm not sure how that would stack up against the SR at those epic levels but it might cover it.(oh and if there is an epic version of the archmage its +spell power things might get even sicker) And your save DCs easily can be 30ish for a 1st level spell again not sure if that even is useful or not, but if you focus on it and maybe at epic levels you have to you can get your SR checks and save dcs up fairly high.

 

[Avatar28]

Ugh, I forgot about SR. Okay, so probably won't be able to do any sort of significant multiclassing and still be an effective mage at all.

BUT, there's still my idea of making a sword that allows me to cast true strike one it. That would allow me a +20 to hit. What about adding the ability to do a double or triple empowered Bull's Strength 1/day at a high caster level.

I did a triple empowered Bull's Strength, that gives it a spell level of 8 with a caster level of 18. 1 charge per day cuts the cost to 1/5 for a market value of 51,840. Another 1,800 for the True Strike, 18,000 if I wanted a +3 weapon, plus 315 for the sword itself for a total of 71,955.

So the cost to make it should be 25,420 for bull's strength, plus 900 for true strike, plus 9,000 for the +3 for a total of 35,977 plus 2879 xp.

Obviously that's prett steep. Let's see, though. If I did it double empowered at a spell level of 6, caster levell 11 usable 2/day that would give me 47,520 for the bull's strength part. Single empowered at a caster level of 8 2/day drops it 23,040.

This is the first time I've tried calculating a magic weapon, could someone check my math and make sure I'm doing this right?

 

[Seule]

I've got an Evoker 9/EleSavant Air 10, and I agree, the SR checks are getting pretty hard on some opponents. However, levels of Elemental Savant will help. Every 10 levels of ESavant gets you +3 to Penetration (and Focus) with your element, and in Epic levels that can be pretty good. Currently I have a save DC on spells of 28 + spell level for Evocation Electrical spells, and I count as a caster level check of 1d20 + 23 (only have SP, not Greater SPen). It'll only get higher as I hit Epic levels and start taking those feats as well.
Plus, you get cool stuff from the PClass. I recommend not taking Air, I've heard of 3 or 4 Air Savants, and no others. It's odd really, I avoided Fire so I wouldn't be the same as everyone else.

--Seule

 

[Shard O'Glase]

Ugh, I forgot about SR. Okay, so probably won't be able to do any sort of significant multiclassing and still be an effective mage at all.

BUT, there's still my idea of making a sword that allows me to cast true strike one it. That would allow me a +20 to hit. What about adding the ability to do a double or triple empowered Bull's Strength 1/day at a high caster level.

At 21st level take the epic feat that lets you cast metamagic spells at -1 level. That tripple empowered bulls str would only be a 5th level spell and much cheaper now(heck make it x8 empowered). (think of a bulls str x6 empowered cast on the fighter for your 8th level slot) On a roll of a 1 he would get+8str, on a roll of a 4 he'd get +20 str. In fact lots of items like this I'd hold off on until epic levels so you could make sicker items. I'd stock up on things that weren't improved by metamagic, and take things generally needed for now.(AC boosters, save boosers etc.)