I did that last night. But I forgot to cast greater magic weapon first, so I was stuck with a +2 bonus (for the sword being adamantine) on a +5/35 DR creature. Not that it mattered anyways. It turned invisible on me and ended up running away. Dang it, I gotta figure out the best spells for me to have memorized each day.
Wizzie/Sorc vs Bladesinger vs Spellsword @ level 20. Help please!
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Elder-Basilisk
First Post
By 17th level, you should be able to just cast long term buffs like GMW in the morning and be done with them (unless someone hits you with a Dispel Magic, of course).
As I see, it any 20th level fighter/wizard type should always be walking around with a minimum of:
Bull's Strength, Cat's Grace, Endurance (fort saves and hit points to be immune to power words etc), Greater Magic Weapon (on several weapons), Mind Blank, Persistent Shield (if Persistent Spell feat is permitted in your game), energy buffer. The shortest duration spell on the list is 17 hours at your level so, even without extending them, you can cast them in the morning and they'll be good until you go to bed. If you prepare two of each or leave open slots, you can cast them again before you go to bed and have them still active most of the next day (at no cost in spell slots).
As I see, it any 20th level fighter/wizard type should always be walking around with a minimum of:
Bull's Strength, Cat's Grace, Endurance (fort saves and hit points to be immune to power words etc), Greater Magic Weapon (on several weapons), Mind Blank, Persistent Shield (if Persistent Spell feat is permitted in your game), energy buffer. The shortest duration spell on the list is 17 hours at your level so, even without extending them, you can cast them in the morning and they'll be good until you go to bed. If you prepare two of each or leave open slots, you can cast them again before you go to bed and have them still active most of the next day (at no cost in spell slots).
Thistleknot
First Post
Go with Spellsword. It's got flair! And you can end up being a better fighter than the fighter, probably.
Fighter 1/Sorcerer 9/Spellsword 10
Sorcerer would work best because a Spellsword would need a tight spell list that you could call upon whenever you need to. They should primarily be buffing spells, with the occasional attack (for channel spell), defense and utility spell.
Good spells would be, Shield, Haste, True Strike, Polymorph Self, Stoneskin, Tenser's Transformation (Perfect with Spellsword Cache), and Limited Wish.
This would give you a +12/+7/+2 BAB, 7th level spells, and all the Spellsword abilities. Take a Toad familiar for +2 Con.
With +5 Mithril Full Plate, being Polymorphed into a Stone Giant (+11 natural armor +2 base dex mod), +5 Ring of Deflection, +5 Mithril Shield, +2 Gloves of Dex, +4 Haste, +7 Shield Spell, you can have an even AC of 50.
And it only gets better from there with Epic Magic Items.
And lest we forget, Channel Spell is a supernatural ability and is NOT SUBJECT TO SPELL RESISTANCE.
Check out the Epic Spellsword progression in House Rules for some ideas about how to be an Epic Spellsword.
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One last bit of advice:
If you want to go with a mage, you can seriously buff the fighters if you Magic Jar them and cast several of the personal range spells on them (like Tenser's Transformation and Shield), and then release them from the Magic Jar. They still have the spells in effect on them, and they're seriously buffed. =)
Fighter 1/Sorcerer 9/Spellsword 10
Sorcerer would work best because a Spellsword would need a tight spell list that you could call upon whenever you need to. They should primarily be buffing spells, with the occasional attack (for channel spell), defense and utility spell.
Good spells would be, Shield, Haste, True Strike, Polymorph Self, Stoneskin, Tenser's Transformation (Perfect with Spellsword Cache), and Limited Wish.
This would give you a +12/+7/+2 BAB, 7th level spells, and all the Spellsword abilities. Take a Toad familiar for +2 Con.
With +5 Mithril Full Plate, being Polymorphed into a Stone Giant (+11 natural armor +2 base dex mod), +5 Ring of Deflection, +5 Mithril Shield, +2 Gloves of Dex, +4 Haste, +7 Shield Spell, you can have an even AC of 50.
And it only gets better from there with Epic Magic Items.
And lest we forget, Channel Spell is a supernatural ability and is NOT SUBJECT TO SPELL RESISTANCE.
Check out the Epic Spellsword progression in House Rules for some ideas about how to be an Epic Spellsword.
***************************************************
One last bit of advice:
If you want to go with a mage, you can seriously buff the fighters if you Magic Jar them and cast several of the personal range spells on them (like Tenser's Transformation and Shield), and then release them from the Magic Jar. They still have the spells in effect on them, and they're seriously buffed. =)
dead_radish
Explorer
Wow.
I had always assumed you couldn't Persistant spell Shield.
That is so very very wrong.
But yes, all your buffs should be cast with your morning oatmeal. You spend about 2 minutes when you get up, and you're buffed for the day. Then you get a ring of counterspelling, and put greater dispel in it to keep your buffs up.
I had always assumed you couldn't Persistant spell Shield.
That is so very very wrong.
But yes, all your buffs should be cast with your morning oatmeal. You spend about 2 minutes when you get up, and you're buffed for the day. Then you get a ring of counterspelling, and put greater dispel in it to keep your buffs up.
Well, there was no valid RP reason for my character to HAVE GMW cast. We had just arrived in Union (we're planar travelling) from Greyhawk when a white slaad attacked with a fireball. He was actually attacking our Monk PC who had something he wanted. Well, my wife's cleric and my character were together and the monk and the DMs NPC rogue character were together. But we hadn't, at that time, met.
It's kinda funny, actually. One of our players doesn't have the PHB yet. He was playing a character done up by the guy who has the monk. The guy's name is reaper and he's a barbarian weapon master with a vorpal scythe. He actually ran over, got a crit on his first attack on the slaad and killed it. Rather disappointing combat against a creature with 440 hp. But he had to leave early very shortly after that, so we did the wayne's world thing and rolled back time and that character wasn't even there. Never did manage to kill him, though he did eventually run off.
I've got to do a better job picking my spells, that's all there is to it. That and figure out what ones I can afford to cast (we ignore components except when it requires something special like x amount of ruby dust for forcecage, etc).
It's kinda funny, actually. One of our players doesn't have the PHB yet. He was playing a character done up by the guy who has the monk. The guy's name is reaper and he's a barbarian weapon master with a vorpal scythe. He actually ran over, got a crit on his first attack on the slaad and killed it. Rather disappointing combat against a creature with 440 hp. But he had to leave early very shortly after that, so we did the wayne's world thing and rolled back time and that character wasn't even there. Never did manage to kill him, though he did eventually run off.
I've got to do a better job picking my spells, that's all there is to it. That and figure out what ones I can afford to cast (we ignore components except when it requires something special like x amount of ruby dust for forcecage, etc).
dead_radish said:Cleric of the Red Knight (Planning and War) 1/Wizard 18/Spelldancer 1.
Every morning, you wake up. You spend about 10-15 dancing about like a ninny, and you are under the influence of a triple empowered Tensor's Transformation, a Persistant Divine Favor, a triple cat's grace, keen edge, Greater Magic Weapon +5 on your flaming burst/shocking burst/icy burst/sonic burst bastard sword. your persistant Speedy Movement (A version of haste you researched that has a personal range, not touch), and then you go ahead and time stop people, do whatever you want, then kill them later. Or you just Enervate them massively, and stab them repeatedly (don't forget your rings of spell storing, with Greater Dispel Magic). Quickened True Strikes aren't bad either.
High level casters (I'd personally go uber-cleric, but that's just me) can beat nearly any other class, if they want.
I would "cool" that up a little by assuming that the dance moves are gracefull Katas or weapon forms
I kind of imagine the guy moving slowly than faster, faster , faster until he is a blur as the spells work up to max.
It wouldn't be ball room stuff thats for sure
Elder-Basilisk
First Post
Fair enough--the way I see it though, high level characters have enough enemies that they don't need a valid reason to have GMW cast. What they need is a valid reason not to have GMW cast.
My Living Greyhawk character for instance is only 8th level but I don't think he's taken his armor off for months. If he gets dirty, that's what presdigitation is for. When every couple of weeks you're ambushed on your way to visit your merchant friend, or run into trolls on your way to a castle or your boat is assaulted by pirates, assassins try to murder the local Lord at an archery contest, a harmless festival turns out to be under the iron thumb of a death-priest who uses skeletons as clowns (and needs a few more), you spot some thug beating a defenseless old man in the streets, or you discover a demon worshipping cult in the basement of a local tavern you start to get the picture that the world isn't a safe place and you're not even guaranteed the next six seconds of life so you'd better be prepared to fight for those six seconds of life no matter what you're doing.
Now maybe when he's 20th level, lives in some permanent version of Mordenkeinen's Magnificent Mansion, and keeps permanent mind blank, energy buffer, shield, strength, dexterity, and constitution buffs running, he'll relax a bit. But I doubt it. To be even a moderate level character is to be paranoid. Not to be paranoid is the first step to not being alive.
Plus, let's face it, even if trouble didn't come looking for you when your name got well-known, if you're an adventurer, you go looking for trouble. The ordinary man says "child in the clutches of a demon worshipping cult! Gee, that's too bad; maybe I can get the watch to look into it. I certainly can't take them on by myself." The adventurer says "A child in the hands of a demon worshipping cult! By Pholtus, we've got to do something about that. I've got a scroll of haste and three wands of magic missiles left. Come on friends, let's go once more into the breach, face impossible odds and emerge triumphant as we see the minions of evil and chaos crushed beneath our feat!" That's the kind of thing you always expect to be doing if you're an adventurer. Otherwise you'd have a real job.
My Living Greyhawk character for instance is only 8th level but I don't think he's taken his armor off for months. If he gets dirty, that's what presdigitation is for. When every couple of weeks you're ambushed on your way to visit your merchant friend, or run into trolls on your way to a castle or your boat is assaulted by pirates, assassins try to murder the local Lord at an archery contest, a harmless festival turns out to be under the iron thumb of a death-priest who uses skeletons as clowns (and needs a few more), you spot some thug beating a defenseless old man in the streets, or you discover a demon worshipping cult in the basement of a local tavern you start to get the picture that the world isn't a safe place and you're not even guaranteed the next six seconds of life so you'd better be prepared to fight for those six seconds of life no matter what you're doing.
Now maybe when he's 20th level, lives in some permanent version of Mordenkeinen's Magnificent Mansion, and keeps permanent mind blank, energy buffer, shield, strength, dexterity, and constitution buffs running, he'll relax a bit. But I doubt it. To be even a moderate level character is to be paranoid. Not to be paranoid is the first step to not being alive.
Plus, let's face it, even if trouble didn't come looking for you when your name got well-known, if you're an adventurer, you go looking for trouble. The ordinary man says "child in the clutches of a demon worshipping cult! Gee, that's too bad; maybe I can get the watch to look into it. I certainly can't take them on by myself." The adventurer says "A child in the hands of a demon worshipping cult! By Pholtus, we've got to do something about that. I've got a scroll of haste and three wands of magic missiles left. Come on friends, let's go once more into the breach, face impossible odds and emerge triumphant as we see the minions of evil and chaos crushed beneath our feat!" That's the kind of thing you always expect to be doing if you're an adventurer. Otherwise you'd have a real job.
Avatar28 said:
dead_radish
Explorer
Exactly!
Look at it this way. You're 20th level. Your buffs last 20 hours. You sleep 8 hours a day. That's plenty of time. You wake up, you cast all your buff spells. You might not need them, but you might. Why not cast them? You spent the time to memorize them, they'll last all day.
My elven cleric archer (one of the most broken builds there is) gets up, and casts at least 6 spells on herself, standard (Persistant Divine Favor, Bull's Strength, Endurance, Cat's Grace, Greater Magic Weapon on her bow, greater magic weapon on her arrows). She casts those every morning, and it takes her 36 seconds. Basically, she gets up, stretches, and casts them one right after the other. Then she gets up to face the day, whatever it may be. It might just be a trip to the market. Then she gets there faster. You just make it part of your routine.
Look at it this way. You're 20th level. Your buffs last 20 hours. You sleep 8 hours a day. That's plenty of time. You wake up, you cast all your buff spells. You might not need them, but you might. Why not cast them? You spent the time to memorize them, they'll last all day.
My elven cleric archer (one of the most broken builds there is) gets up, and casts at least 6 spells on herself, standard (Persistant Divine Favor, Bull's Strength, Endurance, Cat's Grace, Greater Magic Weapon on her bow, greater magic weapon on her arrows). She casts those every morning, and it takes her 36 seconds. Basically, she gets up, stretches, and casts them one right after the other. Then she gets up to face the day, whatever it may be. It might just be a trip to the market. Then she gets there faster.
You just make it part of your routine.Well, only 17 of her levels are wizard levels. But, yeah, I see your point.
So, I've got a 34 INT right now, so I get the following spells/level:
4,7,7,7,7,6,6,5,4,2
What spells would you guys recommend memorizing each day. Ditto for buffing spells at the beginning. I've only got empower spell, still spell and (I think) extend spell as metamagic feats. I've already got gloves of dexterity +6 and strength +6 so bull's strength and cat's grace aren't really going to be much of a help.
So, I've got a 34 INT right now, so I get the following spells/level:
4,7,7,7,7,6,6,5,4,2
What spells would you guys recommend memorizing each day. Ditto for buffing spells at the beginning. I've only got empower spell, still spell and (I think) extend spell as metamagic feats. I've already got gloves of dexterity +6 and strength +6 so bull's strength and cat's grace aren't really going to be much of a help.
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