Wonderful, broken Simulacrum

[JimAde]

For that matter, natural healing is an "ability" of most creatures. Since the spell specifically describes how to heal we have to assume the sim doesn't heal normally, but the SRD description doesn't say anything about other healing abilities.

And what about spells? Say you are an illusionist with a barred school of Evocation and the Craft Wand feat. You make a Sim of a sorcerer who has lots of evocation spells. Can you now collaborate with the sim to create a wand of Magic Missile? This spell seems like a great way to get access to abilities you wouldn't normally have. It's obviously intended for replacing a specific individual, but I think just creating followers with talents you need is more useful.

If you could get, say, a bunch of hair from a 20th-level fighter, you could have several 10th-level bodyguards. Since they are limited to 10th level, could you portion out the original's abilities? Say the original has the cleave feat tree, a weapon focus/spec tree for his favorite melee weapon, and a bunch of archery feats. Could you give one of these feat trees to each of three different sims?

That would be a fun thing to throw at a PC. Three duplicates that all have some of his abilities. Hmm...

 

[Aust Diamondew]

If you could cast it 20 times in a row I'd let you take a 20.

 

[Jack Simth]

Unfortunately, I'm only 14th level at this point, so 8th level spells are still a little ways away. I think maybe I can be patient for a +21 to my disguise roll (aid another, CHA bonus and masterwork tools figured in), with no funky new research to be done. Even rolling a 1 on the Disguise roll, that makes it largely impenetrable to all but a seriously astute observer. Hee hee...

This could be a must-have spell for any task that requires a single make-or-break skill check to set future DCs.

Would your GM permit you to hire someone to make a scroll for it? You are, after all, only 1 level short - that's a 95% chance of successfully using the scroll, if it's on your class list at all.

 

[Jack Simth]

Also, Simacrulum is not too terribly broken - it costs EXP, more for more effect, you (pretty much) have to beat something before you can duplicate it (well, unless you can convince your rouge that stealing a scale/hair/whatever from the lair of something the party couldn't beat is a GOOD idea.....), and even then you are only getting "half" the critter - that Now-Dead CR 16 critter your Party Level 14 group took down only yields a CR 8 aide. Sure, if someone has lots of ranks in Ride, that fake Frost Dragon makes a much better horse than anything else you could buy, but it's rather expensive to maintain.

Hmm.... how long would Polymorph Any Object on a Simacula into the real version of itself last... let's see... same IQ, same size, related (it's an image of itself, made from the real thing).... that would be, what, duration factor 6, or two days. Or does a simacrula count as an Animal of the same Class (e.g., Dragon), in which case it would be Same Kingdom (5), Same class (+2), Same Size (+2), Same IQ (+2) = 11, permanent? Split the difference for 8/9 , 1 week to permanent? Would it still remain under your absolute control, or would it become independant? Able to be healed/heal itself like normal (until someone dispels the Polymorph... to no apparent effect)? What a can of worms that is!

 

[Rystil Arden]

Also, Simacrulum is not too terribly broken - it costs EXP, more for more effect, you (pretty much) have to beat something before you can duplicate it (well, unless you can convince your rouge that stealing a scale/hair/whatever from the lair of something the party couldn't beat is a GOOD idea.....), and even then you are only getting "half" the critter - that Now-Dead CR 16 critter your Party Level 14 group took down only yields a CR 8 aide. Sure, if someone has lots of ranks in Ride, that fake Frost Dragon makes a much better horse than anything else you could buy, but it's rather expensive to maintain.

Hmm.... how long would Polymorph Any Object on a Simacula into the real version of itself last... let's see... same IQ, same size, related (it's an image of itself, made from the real thing).... that would be, what, duration factor 6, or two days. Or does a simacrula count as an Animal of the same Class (e.g., Dragon), in which case it would be Same Kingdom (5), Same class (+2), Same Size (+2), Same IQ (+2) = 11, permanent? Split the difference for 8/9 , 1 week to permanent? Would it still remain under your absolute control, or would it become independant? Able to be healed/heal itself like normal (until someone dispels the Polymorph... to no apparent effect)? What a can of worms that is!

Umm...a simulacrum of a CR 16 creature is usually stronger than CR 8. This is because it has access to 100% of its non-HD related abilities (so a Simu Succubus still has all of those neat SLAs).

 

[Jack Simth]

Yeah; there's variance, you're right; However, just to pick a specific example, an Old black dragon (Cr 16) has 25 HD; 13 HD (rounded up) makes for a Juvinile (CR 7) black dragon. For something with class levels only (that level-16 Evil Elven Cleric you killed to free a town from the Cleric who had taken over the town with his skeleton army) the "halving" works perfectly - for things with independant abilities, such as your succubi, it's quite different with just the HD (and related abilities) going down. Mileage varies by the critter.

 

[silentspace]

wouldn't a simulacrum of an old black dragon with 25 hd be an old black dragon with half the hd?

 

[Jack Simth]

For that matter, natural healing is an "ability" of most creatures. Since the spell specifically describes how to heal we have to assume the sim doesn't heal normally, but the SRD description doesn't say anything about other healing abilities.

And what about spells? Say you are an illusionist with a barred school of Evocation and the Craft Wand feat. You make a Sim of a sorcerer who has lots of evocation spells. Can you now collaborate with the sim to create a wand of Magic Missile? This spell seems like a great way to get access to abilities you wouldn't normally have. It's obviously intended for replacing a specific individual, but I think just creating followers with talents you need is more useful.

If you could get, say, a bunch of hair from a 20th-level fighter, you could have several 10th-level bodyguards. Since they are limited to 10th level, could you portion out the original's abilities? Say the original has the cleave feat tree, a weapon focus/spec tree for his favorite melee weapon, and a bunch of archery feats. Could you give one of these feat trees to each of three different sims?

That would be a fun thing to throw at a PC. Three duplicates that all have some of his abilities. Hmm...

Of course, each 10-th level bodygaurd costs you 1000 exp.

Nah, to really get your GM mad at you, try ordering your sim to, say, make an item all on it's lonesome. Or 20. If you are 14th, and you dupe yourself, that sim has a cl of 7, and thus has, what, (1+2+3+4+5+6)*1000=21000 exp to play around with, and can spend 6000 exp on an item that requires you to have a caster level of 6 (or 6,000 1 exp items, or some combo in between), while only costing you 1000 exp to make (plus materials). Bulk rate scroll/wand generation? Low-level weapon/armor enchantemnts?:
From SRD:

Caster Level for Armor and Shields: The caster level of a magic shield or magic armor with a special ability is given in the item description. For an item with only an enhancement bonus, the caster level is three times the enhancement bonus. If an item has both an enhancement bonus and a special ability, the higher of the two caster level requirements must be met.

So let's see.... starting with CL 14, the dupe gets CL 7 (6 if it spends any EXP at all, 5 if it spends > 6000 exp, 4 if it spends > 11000 exp, et cetera), and can thus put a +2 on a piece of armor (base price 4,000 gp for the enchantment, 160 exp, Caster level 6) 37.5 times, or +2 on a weapon 18.75 times. Ah hah! THATS why there are so many magic shops.... they all have simulcula making items (the original, "owner" sims himself, sets an Orange Ioun stone around the head of the sim, then has each later sim spend the EXP to clone the original once (making a new sim of half the level of the original), and transfer the Ioun stone to the newest sim, then has each "spent" sim (can no longer clone the original, as that would be too costly now) mass-produce magic items. Of course, it requires a minimum level to set up of (what, 2*16 = 32?) so that the sims can make sims themselves....).

 

[Jack Simth]

wouldn't a simulacrum of an old black dragon with 25 hd be an old black dragon with half the hd?

The duplicate creature is partially real and formed from ice or snow. It appears to be the same as the original, but it has only one-half of the real creature’s levels or Hit Dice (and the appropriate hit points, feats, skill ranks, and special abilities for a creature of that level or HD)

(emphasis added)Nope. It would LOOK (and probably have the size of, with associated penalties and bonuses (but I'd rule not STAT bonuses)) of an Old Black Dragon, but it would have all other properties of a 12/13 HD black dragon (except, maybe, Frightful Presence).

 

[silentspace]

Funny, I look at the same quote and even your take on it, and think yes, a simulacrum old black dragon would be an old black dragon with half the hd. I would not describe it as a juvenile black dragon. But maybe that's just semantics?