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D&D 5E Wondering Monster- Once Upon A Time

As of 2013 I agree there are versions of D&D more aptly designed to tell stories rather than for game play.


The article is interesting in that it adds new back stories to creatures which haven't been quite as well defined in D&D.

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What's missing is how background, NPC behavior, motivations, personality, genealogy, origins, and so on are still not rules and stats driven. There's nothing for players to interact with in NPCs except largely undefined ability scores and and class-related material, only improv suggestions for a DM who shouldn't be doing so.
I don't see these elements as mere backstory. They are also (i) NPC motivations, and (ii) elements for framing encounters.

I agree that in Next they are unlikely to be (iii) expressed by the monster stats - that's a feature of 4e monster design that I'm not expecting will be carried over.

Can you explain more what you mean by "improv suggestions for a DM who shouldn't be doing so"?
 

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I don't see these elements as mere backstory. They are also (i) NPC motivations, and (ii) elements for framing encounters.

I agree that in Next they are unlikely to be (iii) expressed by the monster stats - that's a feature of 4e monster design that I'm not expecting will be carried over.

Can you explain more what you mean by "improv suggestions for a DM who shouldn't be doing so"?
The elements are for prepping the scenario for the players to interact with. Scene framing doesn't apply. That's the Forge game you're thinking of. That's designed for shared creation of a fiction. Playing D&D is quite the opposite. The exploration of a reality.

DM's don't improvise after the campaign begins in D&D. That may no longer be standard practice, but what do you think they mean when they say to players, "I'm not making it up"? They're reading from the rules hidden behind the screen, those being learned by the players through play.
 

The elements are for prepping the scenario for the players to interact with. Scene framing doesn't apply. That's the Forge game you're thinking of. That's designed for shared creation of a fiction. Playing D&D is quite the opposite. The exploration of a reality.

What reality? All the reality is made up, by either the DM/players or the game designers.

DM's don't improvise after the campaign begins in D&D. That may no longer be standard practice, but what do you think they mean when they say to players, "I'm not making it up"? They're reading from the rules hidden behind the screen, those being learned by the players through play.
Bull. I have to improvise once the campaign begins - all the time. My players don't stand in place waiting for me to have everything that will ever happen in the campaign made up. That way lies lunacy.

Improvisation is a very strong ability to have as a DM. The amount of times that I've said "I'm not making it up" can be easily related to the amount of times I've actually been either making it up on the spot, or had made it up before play. This idea that the campaign world is sacrosanct and doesn't grow from the interaction of the characters with it is extremely strange to me. In a game that had Wandering Monsters tables everything could be "made up" on the spot.
 

The elements are for prepping the scenario for the players to interact with. Scene framing doesn't apply. That's the Forge game you're thinking of. That's designed for shared creation of a fiction. Playing D&D is quite the opposite. The exploration of a reality.

DM's don't improvise after the campaign begins in D&D. That may no longer be standard practice, but what do you think they mean when they say to players, "I'm not making it up"? They're reading from the rules hidden behind the screen, those being learned by the players through play.
Just so everyone's on the same page, could you tell me which of these you think are improvising:
1) Having NPCs respond off-script based on what the PCs are doing
2) Creating NPCs on the spot to meet the needs of the game
3) Adding clues when the players are stalled
4) Rewriting setting fluff to be more consistent with your vision of the setting
5) Adjusting monster stats on the fly when they don't work as intended
6) Adding elements to encounters that seem stale

Because all of those could be considered improvisation and definitely happen all the time. Heck, I've done all six this week and it's not even Friday yet!

Cheers!
Kinak
 

What reality? All the reality is made up, by either the DM/players or the game designers.
Think of the game Mastermind. The code behind the screen is determined by the referee of that game prior to play. Afterwards it must remain the same. They aren't allowed to change it. What is there is a particular reality. We might interpret it differently, but it's the referee's unchanging interpretation which is being gamed by the player on the other side of the screen.

Just so everyone's on the same page, could you tell me which of these you think are improvising:
SNIP
So you do all of those. I don't do any. There are elements I need to generate on the fly, like rolling Hit Points or NPC Ability Scores, but those results are not created by me. The code for doing so is determined beforehand, but that's so players can engage in gameplay: strategizing, remembering what has happened and extrapolating it 10, 20 moves into the future. Planning for and pragmatically mastering what is existent behind the screen. You can improvise of course, but the DMG, MM, and adventure modules come in separate books from the PHB for a reason. It's why they say "Do not read if you are going to play this game." It's to deal with potential spoilers. Game spoilers, not story spoilers. It's clues to learning how to solve the Rubik's Cube, not knowing the generalities of a sequence before you read it. If you're improvising, you don't have a spoiler problem.
 

The elements are for prepping the scenario for the players to interact with. Scene framing doesn't apply.
How do the players interact with the scenario? The fictional situation has to be set out; actions for PCs (who are fictional constructs themselves) declared; and those actions resolved. How is the dyrad going to respond when the player of the burly fighter says "I smile warmly at her"? The backstory that Wyatt suggests helps a GM answer that question in an interesting way.

Think of the game Mastermind.

<snip>

It's clues to learning how to solve the Rubik's Cube
I don't see that either of these have much in common with typical D&D play as I have experienced it over the past 30 years.

Moldvay Basic, in it's GMing advice, considers how the GM should respond to a player who suggests that, rather than be killed in battle, his/her PC might jump over the edge of the cliff hoping to land safely in a stream below. Moldvay suggests that the GM should assign a percentage chance to the likelihood of this working, based on such considerations as whether or not there is a stream flowing through the dungeon.

How is that not improvising? What does it have in common with Mastermind/Rubik's Cube? Or was Moldvay not playing D&D?
 

How do the players interact with the scenario? The fictional situation has to be set out; actions for PCs (who are fictional constructs themselves) declared; and those actions resolved. How is the dyrad going to respond when the player of the burly fighter says "I smile warmly at her"? The backstory that Wyatt suggests helps a GM answer that question in an interesting way.
They players interact by telling the referee what they attempt to do. The fog of war remains up, but the scenario is still existent. Again, there is no fictional situation as this is a game, not a story. Dryads are like any monster, they respond based upon the rules. Wyatt has some interesting suggestions, what is lacking is converting these into game mechanics, not story or fluff.

I don't see that either of these have much in common with typical D&D play as I have experienced it over the past 30 years.

Moldvay Basic, in it's GMing advice, considers how the GM should respond to a player who suggests that, rather than be killed in battle, his/her PC might jump over the edge of the cliff hoping to land safely in a stream below. Moldvay suggests that the GM should assign a percentage chance to the likelihood of this working, based on such considerations as whether or not there is a stream flowing through the dungeon.

How is that not improvising? What does it have in common with Mastermind/Rubik's Cube? Or was Moldvay not playing D&D?
It sounds like Moldvay is suggesting improvising. In D&D that situation is covered by the rules every time. I'm not open to discussing what gets to count as D&D. Too much exists under the label for any coherent identity.
 


Dryads are like any monster, they respond based upon the rules.

<snip>

It sounds like Moldvay is suggesting improvising. In D&D that situation is covered by the rules every time.
I have read a lot of D&D books - the original books, all the 1st ed AD&D books, the B/X books, some 2nd ed books, some 3rd ed books, lots of 4e books.

None of them set out rules for how Dryads respond in all situations.

For instance, there is the reaction table. But what is the modifier on the reaction table if the PC who approaches the dryad is bringing her a plate of delicious pastries? Or offers, in return for some help from her, to perform a task in return? There are no rules for this in any of those editions. They rely upon the GM setting an adjustment. (Just as, in the Moldvay rulebook, the GM applies an ad hoc modifier to the hobgoblins' reaction roll when Silverleaf the Elf speaks to them.)

In D&D that situation is covered by the rules every time. I'm not open to discussing what gets to count as D&D.
You may not be open to discussing that, but what you say has clear implications nevertheless - your post implies that Moldvay Basic is not D&D, or at least is recommending techniques that are not part of D&D.

In any event, what is the rule in D&D that covers the likelihood of a PC surviving a jump over a cliff by having his/her fall broken by an underground stream?
 


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