Wondering the opinion of the board on this matter....

[Wolf72]

gotta agree that its fine the way it is, especially if your character does not get a lot of skill points (2+int for wiz/sorc/cleric) ...

not spending points on conc is fine if you don't ever expect to get into melee (hah! try that one on your dm)

it may be relatively easy to use and succeed at, but woe to those who don't spend the points or get combat casting.

Try it, make a mage with very little ranks in conc and see the difference ... he may have other cool skills, but is gonna get splattered in combat.

 

[Bass Puppet]

I see your point.

Not all Wizards and Clerics are meant for Combat in the "Real World". Thus, taking more combat related feats, you're becoming more experienced under those conditions.

 

[Altalazar]

I think it is just fine as it is. If you max out your concntration and have a good on, then why shouldn't you be able to cast in the thick of combat? That's what a good combat mage does.

A mage's main power is spells, and only a limited number of them per day.

Other classes don't get an AoO on them for using their primary class powers in the thick of melee. Should a fighter get an AoO for attacking? A fighter in melee with a mage already has an excellent opportunity to attack that mage - on his normal attack action, with multiple attacks. Better yet, a readied action to melee attack as soon as the mage attempts a spell - no concentration check can stop that.

So it is not broken one iota. It works exactly the way it is supposed to work.

 

[Lothaire]

Doesn't seem to come up that often in games I have run / played in, because spell casters try to stay far from Melee combat.

Casting defensively has only occured a few times, and there have been a few failures (sometimes resulting in charecter death, not for the caster, but say for a dying charecter that a cleric was trying to heal while defensively casting).

 

[Gargoyle]

This hasn't come up a lot in my game. The casters stay pretty far away, and when close often use a 5ft step to back off before casting.

I'll probably start using the Epic rules though, as it just seems more logical to me, and I'm already using the same rule for Tumbling.

BTW, a roll of 1 can still succeed for skill checks, it's not an automatic failure. That's why I started using the rule for tumbling. Otherwise, character would rarely develop it to more than +14.

 

[Ravellion]

BTW, a roll of 1 can still succeed for skill checks, it's not an automatic failure. That's why I started using the rule for tumbling. Otherwise, character would rarely develop it to more than +14.

Which can be done by 4th level if you'd want to

I think I'm going to house rule certain checks as: "fail on a 1, succeed on a 20". Tumble, concentration, disable device and spellcraft seem prime candidates.

Rav

 

[ciaran00]

Uh, the 15th level fighter is standing around because he doesn't bother READYING an action. Concentration isn't broken, your tactics are.

Think about this as a DM. You really want your Balors (or WORSE, your Dragons) losing their spells because of some steep Concentration check you're now imposing on the game?\

3.5 is meant to be very fluid in terms of combat. If you just sit around expecting your Thac0 (get it? Thac0??) to do your work for you, you're wrong. Get in there and put on a full court press.

ciaran

 

[Nightfall]

Casting on the defensive isn't broken. Using a supernatural ability that lets you do Harm at will, now that's bad!

 

[ciaran00]

Wait. For those of you using attack rolls to counter: why doesn't the spellcaster's own attack roll count in it? Doesn't his BAB explain SOME of his combat-savviness? I'm still thinking about the Balor: it's totally ridiculous to expect moving the guy's skill points around even though he's a combat supermachine. Casting defensively for something like that should mean something else than someone with +3 BAB.

Alternately I think this is a better mechanic: A concentration or tumbling check improves effective AC against AoOs.... But by how much?

ciaran

 

[Cbas10]

Ciaran beat me to it.

Even if a wizard is a master at casting on the defensive, nothing prevents a player from saying, "I'm holding my action until the wizard moves or casts a spell...at that point, I'm going to whack him" (tripping and grappling works well, too).

As far as the skill itself and its uses, I see nothing wrong with it, either. There are SO MANY skills that are advantageous for wizards and other spellcasters to have, and concentration is really only helpful if a wizard is in the thick of combat. If a player wants to load up on that particular skill...fine. He is stronger in that area, but weaker in others.

In my opinion, some of the DCs for Concentration are a bit low; specifically, the weather-related actions. If it is a DC 20 check to cast Verbal-only spells while grappled, it should be much higher than a DC 10 to cast while being exposed to wind-driven hail (I can barely find my car in my own apartment building parking lot while there is wind-driven hail and rain going on; it would be FAR easier to cast a Teleport spell when some guy was wrestling me to the ground).

Waiting for your attacks of opportunity is a very poor tactic in any case. Any of your more intelligent opponents should catch on to that tactic right away and use that against you.