D&D 5E World of Farland Now Embraces Asian, African, and Indian Cultures

Morrus · Nov 12, 2019

Gradine said:
Like, just literally Google "my culture is not a costume" for just an endless parade of takes on why dressing up as a culture is a bad idea, primarily written by members of the cultures in question. This isn't really new, or rare, or even all that controversial anymore. I'm not entirely certain why it ever was to begin with.

Outside America, it‘s not. If the US had a cultural dress (outside the military), I’m sure they‘d be on board. Also see “my accent is not a costume”.

Gradine · Nov 12, 2019

Morrus said:
Outside America, it‘s not. If the US had a cultural dress (outside the military), I’m sure they‘d be on board. Also see “my accent is not a costume”.

To be fair, my (admittedly limited) understanding of race relations outside the U.S. is that there's quite a wide gulf of difference in general. The U.S. has a very, very, very complicated relationship with its racial and cultural heterogeneity.

Sorcerers Apprentice · Nov 13, 2019

Isn't a cowboy hat US cultural dress?

Tonguez · Nov 13, 2019

Sorcerers Apprentice said:
Isn't a cowboy hat US cultural dress?

Stetsons, Coonskin hats, Baseball caps, Basketball Boots, Board Shorts, Varsity Jackets - all identifiably US cultural items

Celebrim · Nov 13, 2019

Sorcerers Apprentice said:
Isn't a cowboy hat US cultural dress?

And if you wear it without being entitled, we say that person is "All hat and no cattle."

But that's about the worst we do other than grin at you.

Umbran · Nov 13, 2019

Morrus said:
Outside America, it‘s not.

I dunno. I think if a member of the British Royal family want to a fancy dress party as, say, Mahatma Gandhi, it might well not fly very well. But, I could be wrong.

Most of Europe has the benefit that they are currently physically distant from the lands they once took as part of their Empires, so it takes an otherwise famous person flaunting the past power dynamic for folks to really notice. The USA currently still occupies the territory, and the minority people affected are still present, so it is much easier for this to become a visible problem.

Beleriphon · Nov 13, 2019

Celebrim said:
And if you wear it without being entitled, we say that person is "All hat and no cattle."

But that's about the worst we do other than grin at you.

Which was my thought as well, there's no power dynamic between a French person wearing a cowboy hat and a Texan. There is however an element of the French person perhaps being a bit of poseur.

Check the link I posted early to the CBC, or look up German Indianers. There's a whole, very weird, thing going on there.

Cap'n Kobold · Nov 13, 2019

Celebrim said:
And while we are at it, in my house we wouldn't invoke the name of God vainly. I have no authority to make you stop, but while we are on this subject you seem confused about, and since you don't seem to understand my questions, whose sensitivities matter here?

The issue is, that in that case, the answer is clear cut: Its Morrus' site, so its his sensitivities that matter. As you say, he sets the rules as to what sort of distressing behaviour is acceptable, and what isn't. No need for a consensus.

However its a lot trickier where it comes to your earlier point (to the point where I don't think it was even understood by some). There is no consensus. If one person is OK with it, does that make it acceptable? If one person objects, does that make it unacceptable? It probably depends on who you ask.

In general, its probably best to err on the side of simply being nice: Try to avoid doing stuff that might upset people if you can.
You probably have less invested in needing to wear a particular costume for fancy dress than the amount you might upset someone else by wearing it for example.

Celebrim · Nov 13, 2019

Beleriphon said:
Which was my thought as well, there's no power dynamic...

I have complex thoughts about the power dynamic argument. As you might have gathered, I personally wouldn't wear costumes depicting myself in an ethnic manner and encourage others not to, but my belief is that most of the arguments as to why you shouldn't are false and tend to come from dark places with less than savory motivates. As evidence that I'm correct in that, I invite you to look at the hypocrisy involved in supporting Justin Trudeau or Ralph Northam. Power dynamics indeed...

Check the link I posted early to the CBC, or look up German Indianers. There's a whole, very weird, thing going on there.

Yeah, I've been aware of that for over 20 years. I had a close friend who was Swiss who was married to a Southern man who told me about the European fascination with aboriginal American culture in his travels in Europe. And again, it's not something that I would do, but this sort of reenactment thing actually cuts tangential to my major argument against wearing costume, and likewise I think cuts tangentially to the one you've been offering the last few posts. There isn't a power dynamic between the Cherokee, Lakota, Comanche, or Creek and East Germans either. So while I find it a bit weird I'm inclined toward tolerance as well. Indeed, I'm inclined toward tolerance in everything.

My advice to the tribes, if they were inclined to ask it, would be to engage in cultural hegemony. Get them to pay you to go over there as advisers and show them how it ought to be done. But that gets back to the problem of, "Who do you ask?" Because you'd likely have some natives that would be totally on board with that and some that are totally offended by it. So if you get permission from one or two or ten, does that make it all right?

Full disclosure. I don't count myself as native, wasn't raised that way, and would consider it false and presumptuous of me to claim title to it or to speak on behalf of anyone but myself, but I do have an ancestor on my mother's side on the Creek Dawes roll which is more than some people who claim the ancestry actually have.

Celebrim · Nov 13, 2019

Cap'n Kobold said:
The issue is, that in that case, the answer is clear cut: Its Morrus' site, so its his sensitivities that matter. As you say, he sets the rules as to what sort of distressing behaviour is acceptable, and what isn't. No need for a consensus.

I totally agree. But logically, that would put him agreement with anyone else who decided their own sensitivities were the ones which mattered. Which was the point I was going for.

In general, its probably best to err on the side of simply being nice: Try to avoid doing stuff that might upset people if you can. You probably have less invested in needing to wear a particular costume for fancy dress than the amount you might upset someone else by wearing it for example.

I think we are probably in pretty close agreement.