World of Greyhawk Folio - 30 years on

Having owned every edition's version/s of GH, I still find the original folio the best representation of the setting yet- and it was not the first "set" I owned. I owned the 83 box first, and was not impressed- it sat on my gaming shelf for years, untouched after the initial read-through. I'm a big fan of Gary, but I thought this product, was terribly disjointed and difficult to get through. It was "bad chaos", unlike the "brilliant chaos" of the DMG.

As I got back into GH again in the mid late 90s, I picked up EVERYTHING, from the late 1E era, the FTA era, the Roger Moore era, and grabbed another copy of the boxed set books, as well as the folio (and eventually the GH gaz for 3E). I sold everything off in time but the folio. In a nutshell having them both to compare, I find(found) the 83 box added alot of not terribly useful (to me) word count, and very little usable meat. The boxed set was typical of "83 & beyond" TSR products where the belief was "more word count=better", and "we need to provide all the story details".

The folio for my tastes gives a far better representation of the greater world hinted at in all the classic modules, and is more true to the setting's initial aim: to provide a playground for the DM to do his own thing.
 

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Ah, the memories....

That original map capitivated me as a 7-10 year old as I watched my older brother prepare his AD&D games for his friends. It still does--he gave me his World of Greyhawk Boxed set when I was 13 or 14.

The fonts, the names, the individual drawings of geographical, made this map one of a kind. (IMO, The only handdrawn fantasy world map that's superior would be the colored pencil maps I've seen of Middle-Earth for Iron Crown Enterprises.) Certainly the map has its quirks, but those just add to its charm. I also have the map from From the Ashes boxed set and Paizo's version.

While I know Greyhawk fans are split over the From the Ashes and the the original World of Greyhawk boxed sets, but I've enjoyed both. With Greyhawk, I've never felt like I had to go along with official "canon." The original Greyhawk boxed set definitely had that feel. From the Ashes just shook things up a bit. The Living Greyhawk Gazeeter might have been a bit overboard for my tastes but I did enjoy reading it. Eric Mona and Paizo did a great job collecting Greyhawk Lore from over the years.

I had a lot of fun with Greyhawk. Ran one campaign that lasted almost 11 years in it. We went all over the Greyhawk map.
 


I always assumed the Fler River flowed south into Lake Quag, I also assumed that the Velverdyva flowed along a canyon between the Yatils and the Clatspurs and then south through Veluna and Furyondy before draining into the Nyr Dyv. This is the first time I have ever heard anyone suggest these rivers flowed any other way. :confused:

You're right; Hussar is wrong.

Hussar is also wrong in claiming that rivers don't split in the real world. It's rare, but they do. Primarily in delta plains, which is what I'm assuming is happening three hexes east of Istivin. And since that's the only river that seems to be doing any kind of spltiting, I'd also be suspicious that he's somehow reversed the directions on other rivers, too.
 

I always assumed the Fler River flowed south into Lake Quag, I also assumed that the Velverdyva flowed along a canyon between the Yatils and the Clatspurs and then south through Veluna and Furyondy before draining into the Nyr Dyv. This is the first time I have ever heard anyone suggest these rivers flowed any other way. :confused:

So, the river starts on flat plains to the north, flows south into a lake, then empties THROUGH the mountain range into the sea.

If you'll notice too, delta's only occur when you flow into large bodies of water. Rivers never split otherwise, with the possible exception of wetlands.

Sorry, the link should have been Cartographers' Guild - The Front Page - was going from memory.

Like I said, great map and certainly iconic. Gold standard though? Sorry, not even close.
 

So, the river starts on flat plains to the north, flows south into a lake, then empties THROUGH the mountain range into the sea.

From the gazetteer:

Fier River: The principle inlet to Lake Quag, flowing from the Burneal Forest and the Land of Black Ice beyond. It is supposed that much of this river is passable to large craft.

(...)

Velverdyva River: This river might be the second longest on the continent. There is debate whether lower Fier should be called the Velverdyva or not. The river is the boundary between Veluna and Furyondy. It is open to large vessels to a point north of the Veluna City area, while barges can travel all the waters to Thornward in Bissell (Fals River) or to Lake Quag (with some difficulty).
So, yes. That is exactly what that river does.

As do many rivers in the real world.
 

So, the river starts on flat plains to the north, flows south into a lake, then empties THROUGH the mountain range into the sea.

Yes. You'll note that on the map we do not have elevations, only general terms such as mountains, hills, plains, etc. I think a good real-world comparison for the Fler/Velverdyva is the Arkansas River which flows across the "plains" of Kansas and through the Ozark and Ouachita "Mountains" of Arkansas before merging with the Mississippi.
 

Good discussion, gang.

How about the Darlene map's use of hexes for travel and distances? Antiquated or still superior utility for gaming purposes?
 


River Police

While I understand the need and desire for verisimilitude, it's hard for me not to chuckle a little when strict adherence to real world geography is demanded in worlds with dragons, elves and magic. B-)

Plus, oddballs are fun. The East River in New York City flows in both directions depending on the tide. I now live near Rochester, NY on Lake Ontario where the Genesee River flows north, an extreme rarity in the northern hemisphere.
 

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