World War Z: Announced

[mmu1]

Not at all. Much of the damage you describe is disabling due to pain. Take away the pain and you need to completly destroy those body structures to be effective. Damaging them isn't enough. Find that hard to believe? Research what kind of physical punishment someone can take when hopped up on PCP. I promise, you will be suprised. Take away the pain and the human body is an amazing machine.

Now, back into the fiction, take away the need for breathing and blood circulation. All of a sudden nothing short of complete destruction of bone will slow the thing down. The problem is, most ammunition is designed to do soft tissue damage. They don't do much to harder bones. Bones that are protected and to a point held together by the surrounding meat. So, you need a headshot.

Most military ammunition is not designed to do soft tissue damage or bone damage, because of the simple fact that most military ammo is designed for ballistic performance and armor penetration rather than for what it does to the tissue it hits. That being said, most military rounds from assault rifle on up will shatter bone effortlessly, and often make a mess of the surrounding soft tissue. Sure, there have been accounts of people staying functional despite 15-20 9mm or .38 caliber wounds, but rifle rounds have several times the energy. Not so many accounts of people surviving a dozen 5.56mm hits, never mind 7.62mm or .50 caliber.

Like I said, it might take a lot more shots, but a couple dozen decently aimed AR or MG rounds and anything humanoid that relies on muscle and bone for movement is going to just flop around in a ragged mess. (naturally, I'm not trying to argue that that this would more effective or efficient than a single headshot)

 

[Fallen Seraph]

Also depends on the speed, like for example older model m4s had a much higher bullet-speed.

This became very noticeable during Somalia and the Black Hawk Down incident. Since the US soldiers would be shooting the insurgents and they be hit 5-6 or more times and not even feel it because they passed through the body so fast.

Thus the bullets are now slower, so they actually have some stopping power behind them. But given how a zombie-body is rotting, this may not be enough since the flesh be easier to rip, thus it simply pass straight through.

 

[mmu1]

Also depends on the speed, like for example older model m4s had a much higher bullet-speed.

This became very noticeable during Somalia and the Black Hawk Down incident. Since the US soldiers would be shooting the insurgents and they be hit 5-6 or more times and not even feel it because they passed through the body so fast.

Thus the bullets are now slower, so they actually have some stopping power behind them. But given how a zombie-body is rotting, this may not be enough since the flesh be easier to rip, thus it simply pass straight through.

The problem in Somalia - such as it was, since all the evidence is pretty much anecdotal - was apparently due to the US soldiers being issued with "green-tip" 5.56mm rounds, which are steel-cored and at high velocity do tend to blow through soft tissue without deforming and expending much energy.

 

[Darkwolf71]

Most military ammunition is not designed to do soft tissue damage or bone damage, because of the simple fact that most military ammo is designed for ballistic performance and armor penetration rather than for what it does to the tissue it hits. That being said, most military rounds from assault rifle on up will shatter bone effortlessly, and often make a mess of the surrounding soft tissue. Sure, there have been accounts of people staying functional despite 15-20 9mm or .38 caliber wounds, but rifle rounds have several times the energy. Not so many accounts of people surviving a dozen 5.56mm hits, never mind 7.62mm or .50 caliber.

Like I said, it might take a lot more shots, but a couple dozen decently aimed AR or MG rounds and anything humanoid that relies on muscle and bone for movement is going to just flop around in a ragged mess. (naturally, I'm not trying to argue that that this would more effective or efficient than a single headshot)

I was unaware that we were restricting the topic to military ammunition. Guess Farmer John and Bubba are just lunch meat.

But, even so you still need to actually hit bone to shatter it. More rounds would be wasted tearing through the surrounding flesh. Now you're talking about targets even smaller than the head. You're also talking about accuracy through volume. Risky, time consuming, and as you said ineffecient.

 

[Fallen Seraph]

Lol, you know this is why I love zombies of all the sorta monster-type-of-things they are the one type everyone has their own theory on/survival thoughts

 

[Tetsubo]

Writers of monster books/movies almost always eff-up their portrayal of military equipment and tactics, because the army needs to be slaughtered in order for the premise to work.

You might lose tons of lives if someone blunders and lets infantry get overrun, but in the end, it'd just be target practice for armor, artillery, and aircraft. (which is why the author needed to come up with the boneheaded assertion that artillery and bombs doesn't work on zombies)

...heh, anyone ever seen a video of a mine-flail tank in action? Those would come in handy.

Right. APCs and tanks would be immune to the Risen. Heck, so would armored cars.

Put zombies into an actual fantasy world, like D&D and I won't argue. But base them in our world and logic does still apply.

 

[Tetsubo]

I find your faith in human's ability to not panic quite interesting. I don't care how many zombie movies you've seen, books read, games played. If it actually started to happen? People would FREAK. Not everyone, but a likely most, at first.

Yes, weapons are readliy available, but the number of people able to effectivly use them? Considerably less, I imagine. And the ones who try and fail? your 160,000 begins to grow exponentially.

And of course, you and I are talking about the US, where firearms are pretty common. Countries with more gun control would be much worse off.

I do actually have some limited faith in humanity. But mostly I have faith in every individuals desire to not be eaten alive. Purely a selfish motivation.

Hitting any animal in the head is a good way to kill it. If a "normal" human attacked me and attempted to bite me, I wouldn't stop hitting them in the head until I saw brains.

Put zombies in the real world and you get 24 - 48 hours of shear panic and chaos. Then the humans fight back. Then the humans win. Then the humans find a way to exploit the zombies.

I have the advantage of owning both firearms and polearms...

 

[Darkwolf71]

I have the advantage of owning both firearms and polearms...

And a trenchcoat, I assume?

 

[replicant2]

I do actually have some limited faith in humanity. But mostly I have faith in every individuals desire to not be eaten alive. Purely a selfish motivation.

Hitting any animal in the head is a good way to kill it. If a "normal" human attacked me and attempted to bite me, I wouldn't stop hitting them in the head until I saw brains.

Put zombies in the real world and you get 24 - 48 hours of shear panic and chaos. Then the humans fight back. Then the humans win. Then the humans find a way to exploit the zombies.

I have the advantage of owning both firearms and polearms...

If you haven't read World War Z, you should, because in many ways it matches your beliefs. There's more than 24-48 hours of panic, but the humans do fight back with great effectiveness.

 

[Tetsubo]

If you haven't read World War Z, you should, because in many ways it matches your beliefs. There's more than 24-48 hours of panic, but the humans do fight back with great effectiveness.

I don't read fiction any longer...