worlds and monsters is in my hands

[zen_hydra]

double post

 

[frankthedm]

The different colors of Dragon have different monster roles - in other words, some are artillery (blue), some are brutes (white), some are soldiers (red) and so on

whites.. brutes? Did they beef the the white dragon up? Might explain why the gargantuan while dragon mini looked so buffed.

Dragons have fewer abilities, focused on the most iconic ones (continuing the theme). For example, the oldest black dragon is said to have only five possible standard actions, with unique magical abilities taking the place of spells simply taken from the wizard's lists.

I so hope the black dragon gets a horn attack.

Dragons aren't forced into specific 'alignments'. Their motives can vary from a baseline - chromatic are wild, metallic like to be in control but good and evil manifests in each.

I am so glad to hear this. For too long have metallic dragon minis sat on shelves. Bad guy gold dragons are the first step. The second step involves those tentacle whiskers…

There are two new flavours of metallic dragon which displace bronze and brass from the core group. The new metallics are Iron and Adamantine.

Cool. I had trouble telling them apart myself. Adamant better have kick ass AC. Yes this means that silver, iron and adamant dragon minis now play the look alike game, but at least now shading can help differentiate them. Dark metal and dull coat = Adamant, Mid range metal tinged with rust = iron, Bright and glossy = silver,

chromatic dragons grow in raw elemental power as they age which manifests as unique new powers related to the appropriate element. An ancient red's breath weapon, for example, can 'scour the fire resistance right off you'

Also like the bursts of elemental energy they can now fart out like that preview red dragon did.

An all new look and set of powers for the green dragon; they are back to breathing poison!

The nose horn looks stupid. Though good to hear they are toxic again.

There are Huge versions of the standard giants called Titans - these are more closely tied to the elements and have greater power

Heard bout this from the wotc guy who wanted ALL giants to start at huge. Now that would have been cool.

THANKS WARTORN!

 

[Propheous_D]

I have to agree that I am a bit bewildered why people are frowning on the idea of an adamantine dragon. I mean hasn't adamantine been in DnD forever? I think aside from the mercurial swords in one reference resource I rarely if ever have seen mercury mentioned at all. So I would personally think it would definately be a tougher fit in the universe.

I think the idea of a Cold Iron Dragon could be quite interesting if done in combination with a Fey based adventure. I mean that to me just says mortal enemy right there. Especially if you tie it into a Warlock who gains his power form wild/fey like influences.l Could even take it one step further into a Wizard who has managed to alter a baby iron dragons eggs, or even sending the adventurers out to get a baby iron dragons eggs so that a wizard can alter the baby into something that he can use against an encroachment of fey.....

 

[Zaruthustran]

Reducing the monster to it's lowest common denominator (XP Speedbump) won't work for me. I want rules for how the monster interacts with the world, because it doesn't exist in a vacuum. Unfortunately, I fear most of these abilities and traits will be shunted aside due to the process of streamlining the monster for a single purpose -- combat.

I've looked at the same information and come to the opposite conclusion.

I *prefer* monster stats to be limited solely to combat stats. That way, I can--within the rules--give my monsters whatever noncombat abilities I wish.

If I want a standard orc to also be a master craftsman with a +20 Blacksmith check, I can.

If I want a Dragon to be a dullard bully with a zero ranks in any social skills, I can.

In 3E, neither of those would be possible. In order to "earn" the required skill points, that blacksmith would have to be advanced with HD and class levels, which would add unwanted HP, BAB, Saves, and other nonsense. The Dragon would have to have a humongous penalty to Int and Cha, or suffer some kind of curse, of something.

It seems like 4E is going toward giving monsters what they *need*--combat stats--and leaving the noncombat bits intentionally vague, for DMs to fill in as the adventure warrants.

I realize that 3E had rule zero, and certainly DMs can (and have) been improvising since the dawn of time. My point is that 4E seems like it's going to explicitly encourage such improvisation. The tone seems to be "This monster has these combat stats, but it fills whatever noncombat story role you as DM require."

-z

 

[Shroomy]

Let's face it, 99.9% of monsters are in the game to be killed in a few rounds, so it makes sense IMO to design them around that fact. As long as I can make a monster more complex via a template (or a similar mechanic), add classes, or otherwise tinker with them, I'm cool with what they are doing.

 

[Professor Phobos]

I realize that 3E had rule zero, and certainly DMs can (and have) been improvising since the dawn of time. My point is that 4E seems like it's going to explicitly encourage such improvisation.

Oh no!

A game that encourages imagination?! What ever will we do!

Sorry for the sarcasm, but I can't help but feel a little...puzzled, by the attitude that GMs have all these rigid limitations to what they can do. In the olden days, and in every other RPG on the market, a GM was supposed to come up with new stuff all the time. It was expected.

As for the other side of the debate- if a monster ability doesn't come up in combat, why even bother to stat it out at all? If you want a dragon to be able to, I dunno, create mountains or something, just say it can do that.

 

[Stilvan]

Ok here's the significant details on the remainder of the book:

The Elemental Chaos:

An evolution of the inner planes better suited to adventuring (and not just one homogenous mass of element) - more dangerous than lethal.

Inahbitants include: Primordials, Elementals, Efreet, Djinn, Demons, Slaads, Titans, Githzerai

The City of Brass is mentioned as a location of note

The concept of "Elemental Evil" as represented in TOEE is recognized as core, on par with the Nine Hells

Consists of four factions with noteworthy differences between them. A 'fire elemental' can refer to any of a number of different shaped creatures, which can be composed of more than just fire; a 'serpentine trail of flame that spits magma' or a 'hill-giant sized humanoid of burning cinders who breathes gouts of fire' are given as examples

The Abyss is now part of the Elemental Chaos, with the stock Demon Princes recast as corrupted primordials

'at least one Demon Lord' appears in the Monster manual as an epic level adversary

They were considering at time of press allowing demons to gain immunity to a damage type of their choosing a few times per day

Mezzoloths and Nycaloths are now Mezzodemons and Nycademons (of which the first is confirmed to be in the Monster Manual)


The Astral Sea:

Counterpart to the Elemental Chaos

Inahbitants include: Gods, Angels, Devils,

Dominions, especially Abandoned ones, found throughout the Astral Sea are 'adventure sites custom made for epic characters'

Continuing the theme, the Astral Sea and its Dominions are much easier to play in, at least for epic level characters.

The pantheon mentioned is: Bahamut, Vecna, Avandra, Zehir, Ioun, Pelor, Tiamat, Gruumsh, Lolth, Corellon, Moradin, Kord, Bane, The Raven Queen, Asmodeus, Torog

The full pantheon has 'twenty plus one' gods

The gods are less connected with Race

There are Angels for all gods, both good and bad- they are described as 'the cold, clinical expression of a deity's plans' and 'the frontline warriors in the wars amongst the gods'. Some interesting fluff to back all that up.

Demons and Devils are more distinct in battle. This is summarized as:

- 'Demons are chaotic, Devils are organized'
- 'Demons kill, Devils subvert'
- 'Demons are tough, Devils are slippery'

The section 'Staff thoughts on 4th Edition' is largely reprinted material from blogs and articles

Lastly thought I'd point out that they explicitly state that the bronze and brass dragons will be released by WOTC in a future supplement.

 

[Cam Banks]

Lastly thought I'd point out that they explicitly state that the bronze and brass dragons will be released by WOTC in a future supplement.

Phew! Thank you for pointing that out.

Cheers,
Cam

 

[Wormwood]

Mezzoloths and Nycaloths are now Mezzodemons and Nycademons (of which the first is confirmed to be in the Monster Manual)

Rock on!

The alignment shakeout continues, and I definitely approve.

The pantheon mentioned is: Bahamut, Vecna, Avandra, Zehir, Ioun, Pelor, Tiamat, Gruumsh, Lolth, Corellon, Moradin, Kord, Bane, The Raven Queen, Asmodeus, Torog

The full pantheon has 'twenty plus one' gods

The gods are less connected with Race

Interesting pantheon---it's like the D&D Dream Team.

Since removing racial gods was the *first* thing I did in my initial 3e homebrew, that's another point in the '4e looks like my house rules' column.

 

[Wormwood]

(double post)