World's Largest Dungeon in actual play [Spoilers!]

[pokedigimaniac]

That's the biggest thing that I'm needing to do - tweak stuff so it's non-core and non-standard and will still give my players a fun time. Longtail with new spells would have been fun and insane.

Glad to hear your players are having fun in Region A, Mr Samedi.

erucsbo, when you finish that map, I would like VERY MUCH to have a copy of it. Map editing is crazy!

 

[JediSoth]

Just as a question, why didn't you obliterate the warmage?

My first target with any dragon is the spellcasters. The first time the warmage opened up with an orb spell, he would become ground zero for draconic wrath. What happened with your bunch?

The PCs had a cold-type fire shield on, so Thorodin took damage with every melee attack he landed (including attacks of opportunity). They also had elemental-resistance (acid) from a resist spell that absorbed the first 180 damage. Poor rolling meant he was only able to breathe twice during the whole combat (I suppose I could have fudged that roll). They were also fairly spread out, so it was hard to damage all of them. I did manage to use the crush attack on the third round of combat and got the warmage in that. But, by then the dragon was already in the double-digits, hit point wise.

One of the PCs is a pseudodragon rogue. He has an immovable rod and held an action so that he could go as soon as the dragon appeared. When the dragon appear, he flew straight for the dragon's mouth. He accepted the first blast of the breath weapon, though since he made his save and had evasion, it didn't do any damage. He flew right into the dragon's wide open mouth and jammed his immovable rod right down the dragon's throat. Very ingenious and it forced me to take a full round to figure out how to undo that. By the time the dragon got within melee range of any of the casters, he was already down about 75%.

The PCs took a lot of damage, but I still feel they dispatched the dragon far too easily. But, maybe with everyone being about 10th level, the combats just aren't supposed to last as long as they did back when everybody was 1st level.

I can't really offer much advise. If you have more than 4 PCs and some of them use classes/races from the splatbooks, they're probably going to be more powerful than their level would indicate. I've found using the guidelines for increasing the challenge still doesn't add much to the challenge. I'd recommend updating the creatures' spell lists to reflect the resources the players are using.

JediSoth

 

[jim pinto]

I've done up a big map of the whole dungeon pre first quake. I've cut off the right hand side maps and shifted the Devil Vault from D to a blank area where M will end up. Anyone want to proof it before I find somewhere to put it up?
Big Jim - are you still reading this thread and can let me know what I need to comply with legally?

as far as i know, you can post whatever you like, so long as you don't sell it

when i was at aeg, we gave a handful of people permission to post the maps, with a caveat boilerplate that went with the maps.

blackbluered or two falls may still have the boilerplate

as far as i'm concerned, post whatever you like

i'm not going to sue you

 

[jim pinto]

Don't quote me as being 100% correct, but this is how I run the orb line of spells - If they bypass magic resistance due to being conjured(created), it's because they aren't magical once the orb is thrown, and are then subject to damage resistance as if not being magical.

And don't forget to tailor some of the monsters and all of the BBEGs to counter your group while still remaining realistic. If you're going to allow non-SRD PCs, you need to add some of it to the WLD itself.

Can you imagine the Longtail combat if he had access to spells beyond the core rules?

dear god.

can you imagine how brutal just 1/2 this dungeon would have been, if i'd stepped outside the SRD for anything?

just making the feral ghouls for region c felt like i was breaking PCs over my knee. DMs that allow PCs access to material outside the SRD should feel completely vindicated in using the same level of power.

to mirror an argument about ethics, twofalls posted a question about a year ago about murder in his forgotten realms campaign, and i chimed in that the PCs represent the pathos of the game world.

if they behave in one way, then certainly they draw their belief system from something inherent in the structure of "civilization." one could argue, then, that PCs who have access to orbs will meet someone who uses them and are bound to face someone else who has perfected the "science" of orbs.

the WLD is just a template for your campaigns. treat it like a cell that breathes in and out through osmosis. if the pcs bring it in, someone, somewhere can reverse engineer it and make it better.

am i making sense? or is this 2 am posting way too wordy?

 

[jim pinto]

I can't really offer much advise. If you have more than 4 PCs and some of them use classes/races from the splatbooks, they're probably going to be more powerful than their level would indicate. I've found using the guidelines for increasing the challenge still doesn't add much to the challenge. I'd recommend updating the creatures' spell lists to reflect the resources the players are using.

JediSoth

this is precisely my complaint about initiative in rpgs.

no single monster should face off against 5 pcs. the numbers are against the monster, every time. unless the monster can cast horrid wilting, there are few options of damaging every, at once, at the same level that the monster "suffered" damage.

this goes for all rpgs.

my blog had an alternative initiative system that addressed this problem precisely.

allow the monster an additional "partial" action each round.

this evens the playing field (a little), allowing the "dragon" to mete out what the pcs can deliver.

the orbs are powerful, but the dragon lost in 5 rounds because he can't possible deal as much damage in one round as five PCs (of nearly any level).

sounds like the pcs didn't fight the real thorodin, but rather a mirror image?!?!

i don't know, just trying to help.

enjoy.

 

[Hussar]

Ahh, they won by using an item in a wonky way that I personally would not have allowed. The "I fly into its mouth" bit just wouldn't work in my game. Nor would evasion if you are actualy IN its mouth. I'm not knocking your game, and it's certainly a creative use of an item, just not one that I would allow. Plus, I would have simply swallowed the pseudodragon as a free action. Never mind that a breath weapon going off while you are in somethings mouth would certainly, IMO, count as being pinned, and thus negated evasion and even a saving throw.

I disagree that supplemental material is overpowered. I've been allowing all sorts of stuff in my game and still killing PC's left, right and center.

Player: I fly into its mouth as my readied action.
DM: Ok, you get swallowed. Take lots of damage.
Player: I activate my rod.
DM: Sorry, you are inside this things gut, you can't talk. Next.

 

[JediSoth]

Ahh, they won by using an item in a wonky way that I personally would not have allowed. The "I fly into its mouth" bit just wouldn't work in my game. Nor would evasion if you are actualy IN its mouth. I'm not knocking your game, and it's certainly a creative use of an item, just not one that I would allow. Plus, I would have simply swallowed the pseudodragon as a free action. Never mind that a breath weapon going off while you are in somethings mouth would certainly, IMO, count as being pinned, and thus negated evasion and even a saving throw.

I disagree that supplemental material is overpowered. I've been allowing all sorts of stuff in my game and still killing PC's left, right and center.

Unfortunately, I'm not very quick thinking on my feet somedays, and this past game was one of those days. This particular tactic surprised me and I was at a loss trying to figure out exactly how big a huge dragon's mouth was compared to a pseudodragon. His justification for avoiding the breath weapon damage is that he skirted the edges of it and didn't enter the mouth until it was just ending, before the dragon snapped its mouth closed. I did get a free bite attack on him. I'm sure by the next session (2 weeks hence) I will have thought of a ton of alternatives.

I could be really mean and have Thorodin's "mate" show up having been under water all this time. But, I'll let them have their victory here. I did tell them from now on, unorthodox tactics that aren't expressly covered in the rules have to be discussed with me first--this isn't KoDT and they aren't Brian van Hoose--I would never allow that kind of crap. At least I had the sense to rule that the dragon's immunity to sleep effects rendered it immune to the pseudodragon's sleep poison. I've had WAY too many combats end the first round due to poor saving throws.

JediSoth

 

[Hussar]

Just as a question. Someone upthread mentioned fighting the marilith in G. I just finished doing the die rollers for her for my OpenRPG game. How the heck did they survive this thing? For a lark I ran the die roller and pumped out 177 points of damage in straight melee with no single roll below 24. O.O

This would obliterate any of my PC's and take a really big bite out of a second one. And that's without any magic enhancement or using power attack.

Needless to say, I won't be using her. I might have her run north during the final battle and escape into K and then on into J. Might be fun to use her for a recurring enemy.

 

[jim pinto]

Just as a question. Someone upthread mentioned fighting the marilith in G. I just finished doing the die rollers for her for my OpenRPG game. How the heck did they survive this thing? For a lark I ran the die roller and pumped out 177 points of damage in straight melee with no single roll below 24. O.O

This would obliterate any of my PC's and take a really big bite out of a second one. And that's without any magic enhancement or using power attack.

Needless to say, I won't be using her. I might have her run north during the final battle and escape into K and then on into J. Might be fun to use her for a recurring enemy.

If you go that route, I recommend giving her a motivation to either harrange the PCs OR unlock something else in the dungeon. Perhaps she wants to free the vampire in J or Tyrus or Thorodin...

Maybe she wants revenge?

Maybe she sees another way to free the Glabrezu?

Anyway.

Something to think on.

 

[Hussar]

Hey Jim, good to see you back. Been a while.

Thanks for the idea. Adding her to J might work. Having her team up with the vampire would be an excellent way to finish the region. How the party reacts to this could make for a really interesting interaction. Do they help the Marilith free the vampire? Do they stop her? Maybe the Marilith could try to make it look like she's trying to stop the party, but is really helping them to free the vampire. Since it pretty much requires a LG person to do so, maybe she could start taunting the paladin to goad him into doing what she wants.

Not a bad idea. Have to mull this over for a while. No hurry, I'm still in the early stages of G.

I've never used a marilith in a game before, so it's kinda groovy. Thanks Jim, for the WLD. I'm using all sorts of stuff that I've never had a chance to use before. The group is about to celebrate its 1 year anniversary in a month or so. Still have 4 of the original 6 players. Damn good for an online game. My current bunch seems pretty keen on finishing things and, even after one year, I'm still nowhere near bored of it.

Two thumbs up.