World's Largest Dungeon in actual play [Spoilers!]

[erucsbo]

Death by massive damage.

The continuing adventures in J

After the party had picked off 4 of the fire giants and retreated to rest they headed back with the intention of doing the same sort of thing (try and lure a fire giant in to an ambush).

The goblin rogue/sorcerer plunked one with a sling bullet, failed his hide check (as per sniping rules) and almost got squashed by a hurled chunk of iron ore, then he skedaddled back to the party where they cast greater invisibility on the human rogue, haste,etc - and waited for the giant to appear. And waited. And waited. After the giant did not appear as they hoped they headed back as a group (conscious of the clock ticking on the spells) and managed to do heaps of sneak attack damage on the giant near the smelting pot (J23).
The alarm was raised and the giants put their plan in to effect - sending 1 from the forge up to help the giant by the pot, and the other 2 along the river of lava to hopefully trap the party in a pincer.

The invisibility ran out on the rogue and she got hit with boulders - being knocked unconscious, and was dragged back to the relative safety of the tunnel where the iron ore had been excavated.
The dwarven eldrtich knight ran out to smack the smelting pot giant and managed to knock him down (inconscious) just as the haste ran out. He then had to hot foot it past the other giant from the forge before the sorcerer was able to bring up a wall of force.
That was when the giants who had come around the long way were spotted.
The fighter (who had taken a level of barbarian last level), and the dwarf ran down the tunnel towards them, with the fighter managing to cover the entire distance (thanks to haste), raged, and scored a critical on one of the giants - 71HP damage. I rolled the death by massive damage save in the open (only fails on a 1) and of course rolled a 1. Cleave.

We have stopped mid-combat, but thanks to some lucky rolls (on the part of the party), and some unlucky rolls (on the part of the giants).

Comments - for which advice would be appreciated.
Some of the players know the rules better than me - and have great delight in taking advantage of them.

• Giants throwing boulders (ranged weapons) don't threaten for the purpose of AoO when melee fighters close - giving the fighters the ability to get a free swing in before the giant gets their attack sequence.
• Stoneskin, Greater invisibilty (with lots of sneak damage) and Haste are giving the party a serious advantage. I have limited the use of stoneskin (we don't use material components because it bogs the game down too much - so I limit the sorcerer to 2 stoneskins (or any other spell with nominal high material component cost) per day), but don't want to give everything adamantine weapons because a) that is unfair, and b) the party has a smith - is eying off the forge - and has repeatedly been on the lookout for adamantine.

 

[Traevanon]

First the easy one:

Giants throwing boulders *do* threaten for AoOs and here's why. Two relevent facts: Giants' hand to hand damage does threaten. Drawing a thrown weapon is a (a boulder) is part of a move action. So on the giant's turn they arm themselves with a boulder (move) and throw it (standard), leaving their hands free for AoOs until the next round.

Secondly, remember the giant's main mode of attack is not crush or weapon, but Sunder, Grapple and Overrun. Grapple the casters, Sunder the fighters and Overrun to get into position.

Hopefully this helps, but remember the main thing, ultimately the party is *supposed* to win. If they are fighting and using up 1/4 of their resources you have found their *real* CR which may or may not be equal to their average level. Adjust up or down from there appropriately to adjust the encounter's importance in the adventure.

Hopefully it will all go well and a good time will be had by all.

 

[rvalle]

Can't the Giants use the bolder as a hand weapon and squish people with it? Treat it as an improvised club maybe.

In my game I've handwaved the no cost material components figuring they can get most of them from either the Garrison or from what ever is around them.

Ones that cost $$ though, they have to come up with or find. Oddly, they do have some dimond dust but have only used it once. The Sorc. has identify but there is a serious shortage in pearls. Such a shame.

 

[rvalle]

Been a long time for an update in my game...

Chararcters are 12th level and are basing their adventures out of G.

They think they know where the Sacred Flame is at but so far are unable to reach it.

This was kinda fun. The players hit the demon lair in the SE corner of G. They blow though the first demon easily (not even realizing he was one of the demon lords) and carry on. They move S and then E and find the room with the 2nd demon lord and 2 Vrock. The party comes into the room with weapons waving and the Demon lord just sits there and talks to them. The fighter/cleric moves towards him with axe raised and the demon just looks on. Not willing to attack someone who is not fighting back he stops.

The party has 'per round' spells up and so are anxious for something to happen. They want to fight the demon but are unable to overcome his willingnes to talk. One of the characters starts to cast a spell while in the room and he just looks on with faint amusument on his face. This freaks out the players and they feel they are in over their head.

The players start to ask questions. Since they are worried about the time I'm still moving in init order and letting them each ask one thing before I move onto the next character to ask what they want to do. Then when the demon lord's turn comes up he answers one or two questions and the init order moves on.

It came down the demon lord saying he knew where the Flame was at and he was willing to strike a deal. He will give the party the Flame if they kill the leader of the Garrison!

The party says they will think about it and leaves.


The next day they buff up and head back. Before going in they Clairvoyance the room and, unfortunatly for them, find the Marilith demon as well as 3 Vrock in the room waiting (the demon isn't stupid). In the first room are 20 Dretch's which the party attack. This triggers
them using telepathy with the waiting 'big' demons. While the party cleave their way though the poor Dretches the Marilith does a Project Image at the intersection and starts to lob Blade Barriers down the hallway and into the room catching some Dretches as well as party members. The partys main healer misses a save and takes 50ish points of damage. Then, in a tatical error she doesn't heal herself, spends her turn casting a Dispel Magic on one of the 3 BB's (removing it) and doesn't move herself out of LOS of the Marilith. In fact, she stays in a nice 3 character line which the Marilith promptly slaps with another BB. Another failed Reflex save by the cleric and she hits the ground with her dead eyes stareing at the ceiling. The party beats a hasty retreat back to the Garrison while being chased by the Marilith (who was hung up by her own BB spells).

Figuring there was no good way to take on a creature that can do Blade Barrier spells at will down a hallway the, at the recomendation of the Garrison, press on in other directions to give the demons time to move out from that room.

They head N from G into K, a region they have been in before. This time its full of fog so it takes a while for them to realize they are in the same area. They are very cations in fear of running into the Green Dragon there but pretty much don't find any creatures there. They do realize the water is evil and leave it alone (I figure the Kraken and Dragon Turtle could take out the Dragon. If they had hit the right spot they would have found really big drag marks in the mud where the dragon was pulled into the water by the Kraken.)

The party moves N and E... and hits the '4 corners' of the map there in which they can move any direciton they want. They had N along the wall and find the fake enterance into N. They take some trap damage but nothing else of note. They push on and find the 'real' enterance into N but correctly figure if they mess with the door the giant statues on either side are going to wack them. So they head E into 0.

Yes, I now have a party of 12th level characters in an area made for 18-20. The first fight they stumble into is with a clan of Bugbears. What these guys are doing there is beyond me as my group is going to be able to take them out without much issue. It would be a speed bump to 18th level characters.

I think their next encounter will be with 2 Dread Wraiths. That should wisen them up a bit. If not the Snow Worms beyond will. Then there is the Megarapter and Frost Giant combo. Or the pack of 20 Artic Wolfs...

rv

 

[erucsbo]

First the easy one:

Giants throwing boulders *do* threaten for AoOs and here's why. Two relevent facts: Giants' hand to hand damage does threaten. Drawing a thrown weapon is a (a boulder) is part of a move action. So on the giant's turn they arm themselves with a boulder (move) and throw it (standard), leaving their hands free for AoOs until the next round.

OK - where does it say that Giants' hand to hand damage does threaten? Giants don't have Improved Unarmed Strike.

Hopefully this helps, but remember the main thing, ultimately the party is *supposed* to win. If they are fighting and using up 1/4 of their resources you have found their *real* CR which may or may not be equal to their average level. Adjust up or down from there appropriately to adjust the encounter's importance in the adventure.

Hopefully it will all go well and a good time will be had by all.

yeah - but the best times, and those that get remembered, are when the situation is tight and stressful and they win their way through. At the moment they are not being majorly challenged.

 

[erucsbo]

First the easy one:

Giants throwing boulders *do* threaten for AoOs and here's why. Two relevent facts: Giants' hand to hand damage does threaten. Drawing a thrown weapon is a (a boulder) is part of a move action. So on the giant's turn they arm themselves with a boulder (move) and throw it (standard), leaving their hands free for AoOs until the next round.

OK - where does it say that Giants' hand to hand damage does threaten? Giants don't have Improved Unarmed Strike.

Hopefully this helps, but remember the main thing, ultimately the party is *supposed* to win. If they are fighting and using up 1/4 of their resources you have found their *real* CR which may or may not be equal to their average level. Adjust up or down from there appropriately to adjust the encounter's importance in the adventure.

Hopefully it will all go well and a good time will be had by all.

yeah - but the best times, and those that get remembered, are when the situation is tight and stressful and they win their way through. At the moment they are not being majorly challenged.

 

[Traevanon]

Every monster that does lethal damage with HTH threatens with it, they dont need Imp Unarmed Strike when using Crush. Oh and also its fairly easy (comparatively speaking) to grapple an invisible target and crush it than to hit it repeatedly. Have you tried having the giants "wade" out into the lava river or block the bridge?

If all else fails the Giants can try to form an alliance with (or beg for help from) the Efreet.

I guess it didnt really sound from your post like the party was really overruning the giants that badly. You can always add levels or additional giants if you need the encounters boosted a bit to add interest.

 

[erucsbo]

Every monster that does lethal damage with HTH threatens with it, they dont need Imp Unarmed Strike when using Crush. Oh and also its fairly easy (comparatively speaking) to grapple an invisible target and crush it than to hit it repeatedly. Have you tried having the giants "wade" out into the lava river or block the bridge?

OH - "slam". I missed it in the attack line! Thanks! Can't see crush mentioned (isn't that just for creatures that can Constrict?)

Just want to confirm though - the giants provoke AoO when starting a grapple? And how do I get the giants to be able to toss/throw someone they have grappled? I can't find anything specific in the rules about it.

I do have some tactics up my sleeve but don't want to mention them here in case any of my players are lurking.

 

[Traevanon]

OH - "slam". I missed it in the attack line! Thanks! Can't see crush mentioned (isn't that just for creatures that can Constrict?)

Just want to confirm though - the giants provoke AoO when starting a grapple? And how do I get the giants to be able to toss/throw someone they have grappled? I can't find anything specific in the rules about it.

I do have some tactics up my sleeve but don't want to mention them here in case any of my players are lurking.

I was just going from memory on their attack line, Slam it is then rather than Crush.

Start your grapple from 10 feet (assuming that is out of reach of the PC) to prevent an AoO. Back off with a 5' step to do so if you have to.

If you havent already, check also the conditions for the region. Everyone PC without protection from fear should be "shaken". Double shaken is "fear". I think a properly timed intimidate check can force someone to flee for a round. I'm not positive on this one though, all my PCs were protected from Fear by this time.

Isnt within 40' of lava extra heat damage?

Oh and you cant technically toss someone you have grappled, but you can drag someone you have pinned half your movement (into the lava presumably).

Kinda late for all this I know, but maybe you'll find a nugget or two you can use.

 

[rvalle]

Start your grapple from 10 feet (assuming that is out of reach of the PC) to prevent an AoO. Back off with a 5' step to do so if you have to.

I don't think that will work. In order to grapple someone you have to reach into their square to grab them. This triggers an AoO even if you are 10' away since your hands/arms are closer.

So, yes it will trigger an AoO and if the character hits the grapple attempt fails.

Though it won't work so well for a Fire Giant, he can try to grapple an mage type with -20 (which gives him a +5 total) and end up only grappling him with the one hand he is grabbing with. This way he can move as normal. i.e. walk up to the river of lava and drop what he is holding as a free action. (I can't find this rule after a quick search of the SRD but I know its out there somewhere).

This is a bit obvious, but make sure to use the Giants Power Attack feat (I always forget!) and to add 2X the PA number as damage as they use 2-handed weapons. Against a 'soft' target this is going to HURT and probably drop or kill someone on a crit.

rv