World's Largest Dungeon in actual play [Spoilers!]

[raynbow]

They're the "we don't ever metagame" type of crowd. I'm perfectly fine with that, but the people know they're in over their heads and can't figure out what to do about it and still stay in character. Also, they stepped into Region E just long enough to get one of the players negative from that ridiculous 8d6 fireball trap in the hall of portraits (or whatever it's called). They didn't stick around too long, and Rukia's player calls that the "higher-level area". That makes me think she doesn't realize that B is just as high as E. That kind of makes sense if you come from the perspective that E is later in the alphabet, so it's probably higher.

See, to me, getting almost party wiped by highly aggressive goblins should be enough reason for them to feel justified in having the characters retreat?

Unfortunately I think part of your problem is giving them the player maps, since they can see the fastest way through, they go for it.

I know describing the turns is a bit of a drag, but it might help avoid this problem next time.

We have one girl in our group who took some ranks in craft mapmaking, and the way we play that is that I briefly describe the twists and turns as they pass through them and then when they are deciding where their next move is they can "stop and look at their map", and I tell them generally what direction they need to go to reach a section that hasn't been explored.

I also do occasionally put down the player map when they are close to getting an area done and let them get a sense of what the whole thing looks like.

 

[JustinM]

Put simply, my group doesn't really have time for that sort of thing. Maybe your folks are better at visualizing the immediate area and linking it to where they've been, or maybe you're just a lot better at describing things than I am, but it's just not workable for us. When they first went into Regions E and B, I didn't have a map for them because a) I didn't think they'd get that far, and b) if they did, I figured the lack of a player map would dissuade them from continuing. It didn't, and the game slowed to a crawl because I'd have to describe and re-describe and answer lots of questions just so they could get a rough idea of their surroundings.

The other option would be to draw it myself as they go or tell them exact dimensions, but now we're talking a whole new level of time consuming.

 

[rvalle]

This is an area that using VT software excels at... no mapping! And, since you can 'mask' the map and reveal it as the players move they still have to explore the map as they go. Going back to sitting at the table and having to draw a map would be painful.

There are some people that are using VT/Mapping software at the table with their group for mapping/fog of war/character management/battle management. Maybe you could implement something like this.

Did I read that right about one of the characters is evil or was that just not caring if evil took over the world? If actively evil, they are going to have a HARD time of it. There are several places where traps only go off if something evil triggers them and the best they could hope from the Garrison is that they toss their evil butts out of their area. And into region I if they are in E which would pretty much be a death sentence for a 4-6th level character.

rv

 

[JustinM]

Oh, I'm fully aware of the limitations on evil PCs in this campaign. Unfortunately, given the nature of the campaign, I don't have a good reason to disallow those alignments.

Anyway, I'm not too familiar with VT software. How does that impact use of a battlemat? Does everyone need a computer at the table? That kind of thing really isn't an option for us, either, given that not everyone has a laptop, and I really don't have the dough to shell out for a projector.

 

[rvalle]

(Ponders...)

I've not used VT software like this yet just seen some posts by others who have and I've not really paid attn to the details of those posts.

What I THINK you could do is use a laptop and slave a 2nd monitor to it (you can do that right?). You bring up the map and have one token on the map showing the party and you can unmask what they see. As they will tell you where they move and what they do and you can move the token and unmask as they move.

When a fight breaks out you can still do it on the battle map. If you want to use the VT software to manage your bad guys during the fight you can do so and turn off the 2nd monitor so their details are not made public. After the fight (assuming the party is still alive ) you turn the 2nd monitor back on and they continue on their merry way.

_________________

As for evil characters, I told the players up front that they are the 'good guys' and should create their characters as such. Its my first time running anything and I don't now, nor probably ever will , want to run with evil characters. But thats just me!

rv

 

[JustinM]

It's worth a thought. How do you use it personally? (Getting off topic, but still...)

 

[rvalle]

I use it to run the Worlds Largest Dungeon!

I use Fantasy Grounds to run a game every Thursday night. We run Skype in conjunction with FG for voice communication.

FG allows each person to log in with their character, to roll virtual dice, see the maps and images I share with them and to see what text and dice rolls others do.

I use the built in masking of FG to run the WLD in 'real time'. Each person has their own token on the map and the move them around to where their character is at that exact moment. There is no question about where anyone is when the trap goes off or an ambush is sprung! It does make for some fun jockeying for position as they move down a hallway into the unknown or get ready to open a door.

The map can be zoomed in and out so while they are moving around exploring I'll have it zoomed out a bit to give them a wide view, when a fight starts I'll zoom in close to make the fight take up the whole map. If the players are talking about where they want to go next I'll zoom it out all the way so they can see where they have been and which parts are still unknown.

I use the 'combat tracker' to keep tabs on init order, current hp's of bad guys and good guys, to roll attacks for the bad guys (drag and drop all the bad guys attacks as once!) and any funky per round status I need to keep track of.

Each bad guy gets his own token which I either make from the srd monsters image from the wotc site or use one of the Fiery Dragon token packs I've bought. Or sometimes both so I can have a little variety of tokens on the map.

The players setup hot keys to do their attacks, saves and common battle rolls. They can kick off all their attacks with modifiers in seconds and, as they go up in levels and get more and more attacks (12th level now) is quite nice.

And lastly I'll use the software to share images with everyone. Usually a picture of what the current monster looks like but I've seen it used to show a wide variety of things... blimps flying though the air, what a trail in a forest looks like, some stairs in a castle... whatever you can find an image for.

Edit: trying to add a screenshot. This is with my dual monitor setup:
http://www.fantasygrounds.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=123&d=1183826597


rv

 

[Hussar]

Yeah, a dual monitor setup with something like Fantasy Grounds or OpenRPG would be pretty sweet if you can swing it. Definitely something the well stocked gaming room should invest in.

Heck, a cheapy monitor isn't all that much money, you could likely get your group to pony up together and get one. Would save HUGE amounts of time for battlemaps and exploration. If you can, get a table that splits in the middle, like where you put the leaves for a dining table, and put the monitor face up in the hole. Sure, it might be upside down for some people, but, meh, not a biggie.

 

[raynbow]

Put simply, my group doesn't really have time for that sort of thing. Maybe your folks are better at visualizing the immediate area and linking it to where they've been, or maybe you're just a lot better at describing things than I am, but it's just not workable for us. When they first went into Regions E and B, I didn't have a map for them because a) I didn't think they'd get that far, and b) if they did, I figured the lack of a player map would dissuade them from continuing. It didn't, and the game slowed to a crawl because I'd have to describe and re-describe and answer lots of questions just so they could get a rough idea of their surroundings.

My group meets twice a month (max) usually for about 4 hours before one of the working moms starts to fall asleep. We are the poster child for groups with not enough time, so I don't think that's it

Your group just sounds much more detail oriented than mine, my group are pretty happy with a general description. "You open the door, the corridor outside extends to the north and south out of sight, about 10 feet to the north you see a door on the opposite side of the hall, about 20 feet to the south you see another door on the opposite side of the hall."

If they want to go back to an area they've already been, they don't so much visualize it as I remind them. "Back at the beginning you skipped a couple doors there, and there was that long corridor to the south after that room with the buggedy-boo in it."

They are happy with that level of detail.

It sounds like your players want/need/expect a higher level of detail maybe?

I've seen some of the people in here who made a map and cut it up and then as the players explore they give them the pieces to add to their own map. (Sort of a low tech "fog of war") I actually thought about doing that but it adds alot to my prep time, which I really don't have alot of. If you have plenty of prep time available, that might be a solution.

 

[erucsbo]

Anyway, I'm not too familiar with VT software. How does that impact use of a battlemat? Does everyone need a computer at the table? That kind of thing really isn't an option for us, either, given that not everyone has a laptop, and I really don't have the dough to shell out for a projector.

I hate having lots of laptops around the room. One guy uses it for his character sheet, but with them being able to look up d20srd etc online without me being able to see what they are doing can be a real pain (not that they are doing it - just that the possibility exists).

I use a laptop and borrow a projector from work - I use RolePlayingMaster to project and reveal the map - all in the group agree that it has saved heaps of time and I don't have to provide oral descriptions of turns and dimensions.