World's Largest Dungeon in actual play [Spoilers!]

Hussar said:
A fun encounter, but, not an edge of the seat one.

That's what the advice is for... how to INCREASE the difficulty. But, I'm glad it was at least fun, if it sadly wasn't challenging.

EDIT: These sorts of posts are most useful to new DMs, I think. You've already run it and perhaps someone can go into Region K knowing that Thorodin isn't a tough enough fight. Obviously, he needs to be one age older, for starters. After that, perhaps there's a magic nullifying effect around the Center of the Region, placed there by the Hags, to keep the Dragon in check.

And of course, it stymies the PCs as well.

?!?!
 

log in or register to remove this ad

jim pinto said:
That's what the advice is for... how to INCREASE the difficulty. But, I'm glad it was at least fun, if it sadly wasn't challenging.

EDIT: These sorts of posts are most useful to new DMs, I think. You've already run it and perhaps someone can go into Region K knowing that Thorodin isn't a tough enough fight. Obviously, he needs to be one age older, for starters. After that, perhaps there's a magic nullifying effect around the Center of the Region, placed there by the Hags, to keep the Dragon in check.

And of course, it stymies the PCs as well.

?!?!

Yep, perfect for me!

BTW Hussaar, thanks for the Errata on the AEG site as well!

I checked erucsbo's site for a K map but must have missed it.

Since K and L are basicly liniked, I'm going to try and push the maps together so they can get the whole effect. I was also figureing on some sort of 'shadowy light' effect with the max range being from the edge of J/K to the center where Thorodin is. As they move deeper in they will see more and more of the map.

I think I'll keep the hags. I've never run them and want to see what they are like. Though I suspect I'm not going to be very good at them.

I do like the idea of them hitting the party soon after the Thorodin fight. Thats just perfectly evil. And with a 2nd dragon too! :]

Thanks guys,

rv
 

rvalle said:
I do like the idea of them hitting the party soon after the Thorodin fight. Thats just perfectly evil. And with a 2nd dragon too! :]

Thanks guys,

rv

now that's a great way to impact PCs who don't recon before the fight

:)

at the TOP of REGION L, there's an anit-magic ward (dead center). i recommend adding a source of light there.

(don't have the Encounter # handy)
 


WLD blog updated

Gday all,

my website has been updated and session 21 in the dungeon is up. The link is

http://home.people.net.au/~twilko/

Managed to kill another character who thought that because they had turned evil that he could not be healed by any of the party. He didn't say that that was what he was thinking at the time and the dire wolf did a crit. Oh well. They now want to play a Hellbreed.

To echo something that Jim Pinto was saying earlier, as a first time DM this thread has been great. You can avoid all the problems and get advice on how to deal with them. Everyone here has my thanks at least.

twilko.
 

Ok, I got a bit of spare time, so I'm going to give this a whirl. I'll be wrapping up my WLD campaign in the next couple of weeks, so, if, I was going to do it again, with the benefit of what I know now and the resources I have now, this is what I think I would do. I'm going to list my suggestions in the order that I played them.

Hussar's Suggestion List

Part 1 - Overall Changes

These are the changes I would make that would affect the entire WLD.

1. I would use the World Serpent Inn from Dragon 351. The WSI is a dimension spanning tavern that connects to all sorts of places. I would change it so that the entrances (or exits depending on your point of view) from each region would link to the front door of the WSI. When you leave the WSI, you would return on the other side of the exit you used - thus entering the next region.

While I like the idea of limiting PC resources, it does get a bit stale after a while. Adding the WSI between regions lets the PC's do a bit of crafting (or have someone else do it for them), get access to some spells and information and add in an easy mechanic for adding new PC's after a fatality.

I would also add about 100 doors in the WSI, possibly accessable by level (read the article and this would make sense) so the players can attempt to do a bit of random hopping around the WLD if they chose. The doors could be two way or one way or possibly open only at certain times or under certain conditions to prevent abuse.

2. I would move about 10% of all encounters, and this includes traps, into the hallways. While I know there are random encounter tables, I could never remember to roll the bloody things. :) So, instead, I'd boot about 15-20 encounters per region into the hallways, and perhaps, depending on the region, make them reactive as well. This also stops the whole compartmentalized aspect of the WLD where there are almost no encounters outside of a room. Makes things much more exciting when it isn't, Listen at Door, open door, kill baddy, move to next room.

3. Add 3 dimensionalism to the WLD. This place is meant to be wracked by earthquakes, yet, the floors are very flat. Add in some cracks, chasms, ramps, stairs, whatever, to break up each region. Coupled with #2 above, this could make for some very exciting encounters. Note that some regions, like K and L already have 3 dimensional aspects with the water and the air, so, I don't think this needs to be done with every region. But, certainly the "dungeony" regions could benefit from some verticality.

4. This is something I twigged on fairly early. Drop maps frequently as treasure. It gives the players something of a clue about what to expect. It really helps.

Region by Region Changes

Region A

Unlike a lot of people, I actually like region A. I thought it was well done. The only complaint that really resonates with me is the repetitive nature of the encounters. There's just too bloody many darkmantles. That and the region lacks a bit of snap and pop in it. Difficult to do because of the level of the PC's, but possible.

  • First, I would take out most of the Darkmantles. PCGEN allows you to add on templates and calculates your statblocks for you, so, doing up the stat blocks for critters is only a couple of clicks away. I personally like the idea of a large gang of fiendish baboons (CR 1/2) roving the halls. Imagine the first encounter in the WLD - the whining orcs - being interupted by a horde of 30 fiendish baboons barrelling around the corner. The party flees for their lives as the baboons rip the orcs to pieces. You can keep the party moving by simply having the band of baboons pop up. Keeps the tension nice and high.

    Adding in some fiendish animals would go a long way to replacing the darkmantles.
  • Honestly, I'd lose the Trogs too. I just didn't like them. They don't talk, they stink so the party likely won't engage with them. My guys completely avoided the area because of the penalties due to the stench. Replacing them with lizard folk would work. Maybe something from another sourcebook.

Region B

Unfortunately, this region needs a ton of work. I've complained about this before, so I won't belabour the point, but, it does. The concept is very, very cool, but the exectution lacks.

  • Remove most of the traps in the Abandoned Halls. They are just annoying.
  • Move the bugbears into the now empty Abandoned Halls and beef up their numbers. It really doesn't make sense that the hidden band of bugbears is 50 feet from the goblin empire.
  • The two eastern maps should be flipped so that the Holy Goblin Temple is in the south and the rebels are in the north. It would take a bit of jiggering with the connecting hallways, but it's doable. This would make the entire region make MUCH more sense. As it stands, the Goblin Empire has to march straight through the Rebel main hall on their way to the Temple. Not a good thing.

Region C

I loved this region. My personal favourite. I did a bit of changing when I ran it, so that Nardarik believed that he was Arum and tricked the players into openning Aslurthyn's tomb. Fantastic battle with the dragon, Aslurthyn, the wights and the giants all involved with the PC's in the middle. With the buffs from the Halls of the Celestials, it was a bloody fantastic fight. I honestly wouldn't change much in this region.

Region F

I actually didn't run this region. I skipped it and ran White Plume Mountain (from the WOTC site) instead. However, I do have some ideas:

  • Use the Demonomicon article from Dragon 341 on Baphomet. The Demon king of Minotaurs needs to be here.
  • Replace one of the leaders of the Minotaur tribes with an Aspect of Baphomet. The other tribe's leader doesn't want to submit to the aspect's leadership, thus the schism.
  • Replace the teleport doors with entrances to an under layer beneath F. Inside this layer are several traps and constructs guarding a Brazen Skull (artifact devoted to Baphomet). Both mino tribes are trying to get at the Skull with whoever gets it getting the right to rule.
  • Do a bit of alteration to the east side of the map allowing easier access to G. As it stands, it's pretty much impossible to go from F to G and C to G is suicidal.
  • This region suffers a lot of Big Monster/Little Room syndrome. Increase the scale to 1=10 feet for the region.

Region G

Another great region. We had so much fun. And since there's lots of stuff to talk to here, there's great opportunities for RP.

  • Another region with Big Monster/Small Room syndrome. Increase scale to 1=10 feet.
  • Possibly remove some of the unaligned to the north. I'm not sure what to replace them with though. They do somewhat detract from the feel of the region though IMO. But, they do make nice bundles of xp to bump the party up a bit to face all those demons.

Region K

The shortest of the regions, with the dragon battle as the highlight. Lots of stuff to talk to with the crazy dragon and the lizard folk. My only complaint is that most of the region is underwater and thus the party is unlikely to find it.

  • Add an alchemical substance (so it can't be dispelled) that grants PC's a swim speed of 30 and the ability to breathe underwater. Call it gillyweed if you must. :)

Region J

Bloody fantastic region. I had a blast here. Great set battles, lots of exploration. My only complaint is perhaps everything in here is too unfriendly. There's pretty much no talking here. That makes for a bit of a grind for the region.

  • Make the Azers and possibly the Giants indifferent to the party at initial encounter. The PC's are obviously not really part of the fighting here, so, it makes sense that they might be recruited.
  • Knock off a few of the traps. They are mostly annoying.
  • The whole Serratine thing was a bit cliche. And finding all the triggers is a pain. Again, if the critters are a bit friendlier, then perhaps it would be a little easier to drop information.

Region D

After three great regions - C, G, and J - D was a let down. There are a lot of stat block errors here and the encounters are not well done for the level the PC's should be. Far too easy. A single Cloudkill spell will wipe out more than half the region if done right and the save DC's for the Formians are a joke against 15th level PC's. The only reason the region is as high as it is is because of the Tarrasque. I would go one of two ways with this region. Either lower down the level expectations and run it right after J or jack it up a whole lot and do it as the finale of the WLD.

Running D after J
  • Remove the Tarrasque. (heh, duh)
  • Knock down the caster levels on a few of the BBEG's.
  • This region also suffers badly from Big Monster Small room, so, use a 1=10 feet scale.

Running D as the finale
  • Add 8 levels of warrior to every deep dwarf and duegar.
  • Add 8 levels of rogue to every Derro
  • Every formian warrior would be equal to the 9hd advanced formian warriors in D 60
  • Advance the formian Myrmarch's and Taskmasters about 8 hd each.
  • Advance each xill to about 15 hit dice.
  • This region also suffers badly from Big Monster Small room, so, use a 1=10 feet scale.

That should work nicely for the region actually. Note, those are rough numbers, but, as it stands, D is a major disappointment. Adding in more fodder doesn't help since the casters can obliterate pretty much anything with 30 hp or less with a single spell, regardless if it saves or not. Like I said, salvaging D would take a lot of work, but, worth it in the end IMO. The concept is great. But the execution is lacking.

Well, what do you all think?

As a final thought, I would like to thank jim pinto and all the people who worked on this project. For the very first time I've had a game go right to high double digit levels, I've had the most fun DMing I've ever had, AND I get to use the Tarrasque on my players. The last almost two years of running the WLD has been fantastic. Jim and everyone else, thank you very much.
 
Last edited:


You MUST post the fight with the Tarrasque here. MUST!

That baboon idea is cool. I idea of them looking over their shoulders as the orks get ripped to shreds is great.

Your guys went a different way then mine (A, E, I, J, K (so far)) so not much to say about the rest.

I do dislike how J is misplaced level wise. My group went in at 10th level and have fought all along the outer edges. The lost to the Fire Salamanders and were forced into fighting and beating the Azers and their Ogre Mage leader (in a somewhat modified fight). They beat the Behir's but left the BIG one alone.

They ran into 2 trolls and were losing when 8 more and the Efreeti showed up so they ran. At this point they know they can loop around the south edge and go to K and avoid the center of J so that is the plan since they don't want to 'clear' the place but just get out.

rv
 

rvalle said:
That baboon idea is cool. I idea of them looking over their shoulders as the orks get ripped to shreds is great.
Wish I'd had that in A now, though my group pretty much went straight north through A and missed 80% of the region (they did enter the dungeon at level 6 though). Might do something similar if they get to N though - maybe with scarab beetles ala The Mummy.

rvalle said:
I do dislike how J is misplaced level wise.
Agreed.
My group also went there from I, and at level 8 it means instant kills from the Chaos diamond from the big behir. They skirted along the bottom of J, and realised that they were very much outclassed. The party is forced to either spend overly long in I until they are of a level that they can cope, or be forced up through M (and then J would become a side trek away from N). They have since gone back to I - fought Madness - found the rebels - and headed north to M.
 

Firstly, great idea Hussar. Maybe we should compile all the ideas and post it somewhere. ;)

Hussar said:
1. I would use the World Serpent Inn from Dragon 351. The WSI is a dimension spanning tavern that connects to all sorts of places. I would change it so that the entrances (or exits depending on your point of view) from each region would link to the front door of the WSI. When you leave the WSI, you would return on the other side of the exit you used - thus entering the next region.

I wouldn't use it personally. I think it would destroy the whole idea of the dungeon as a prison and the garrison being cut off. There are areas that the players can clear out and do item creation, the garrison for one. You could also, as I have done, place around the dungeon more doors connected to the All Door, that can be caches of supplies and weapons.


Hussar said:
Region A
  • First, I would take out most of the Darkmantles. PCGEN allows you to add on templates and calculates your statblocks for you, so, doing up the stat blocks for critters is only a couple of clicks away. I personally like the idea of a large gang of fiendish baboons (CR 1/2) roving the halls. Imagine the first encounter in the WLD - the whining orcs - being interupted by a horde of 30 fiendish baboons barrelling around the corner. The party flees for their lives as the baboons rip the orcs to pieces. You can keep the party moving by simply having the band of baboons pop up. Keeps the tension nice and high.

    Adding in some fiendish animals would go a long way to replacing the darkmantles.
  • Honestly, I'd lose the Trogs too. I just didn't like them. They don't talk, they stink so the party likely won't engage with them. My guys completely avoided the area because of the penalties due to the stench. Replacing them with lizard folk would work. Maybe something from another sourcebook.

Agree whole heartedly. Throwing in a few fiendish creatues makes the area much more interesting.

Hussar said:
Region F
I actually didn't run this region. I skipped it and ran White Plume Mountain (from the WOTC site) instead. However, I do have some ideas:

  • Use the Demonomicon article from Dragon 341 on Baphomet. The Demon king of Minotaurs needs to be here.
  • Replace one of the leaders of the Minotaur tribes with an Aspect of Baphomet. The other tribe's leader doesn't want to submit to the aspect's leadership, thus the schism.
  • Replace the teleport doors with entrances to an under layer beneath F. Inside this layer are several traps and constructs guarding a Brazen Skull (artifact devoted to Baphomet). Both mino tribes are trying to get at the Skull with whoever gets it getting the right to rule.
  • Do a bit of alteration to the east side of the map allowing easier access to G. As it stands, it's pretty much impossible to go from F to G and C to G is suicidal.
  • This region suffers a lot of Big Monster/Little Room syndrome. Increase the scale to 1=10 feet for the region.

I added an Aspect of Baphomet to F but my party have chickened out after only a couple of encounters. I also amalgamated both tribes and had the only resistence to the Apsect being the elf possessing one of the mino's (forget the name). I like the Skull idea but I might put another All Door in the region to access it if I were to run it. To get around the small room problem I spread the mino's out abit as so the party would start thinking they are fighting 4 of them and then suddenly find another 4 flanking them from another room.

Thats as far as I have got so far. A 80% done, E 70% done, F maybe 10% and B 10%.

No region E review Hussar?
 

Remove ads

Top