Worlds of Design: A Time for Change

J.R.R. Tolkien’s Lord of the Rings and Silmarilion set a fashion for fictional civilizations lasting many millennia without much technological or social change. This worked for the literature, but rarely makes sense for games.

stone-age-2115390_1280.jpg

Photo courtesy of Pixabay.


It is all a matter of time scale. An event that would be unthinkable in a hundred years may be inevitable in a hundred million.” Carl Sagan​

One of the things Tolkien did with Middle Earth has encouraged an unbelievable view of history as something that very slowly changes over millennia. Perhaps one reason was that in Middle Earth there were people who remembered the First Age. They were alive then, a consequence of the practical immortality of the elves (and some half-elves). If your world doesn’t have the continuity of immortality then barely-changing history stretching thousands of years makes even less sense.

What I’m trying to do is point out why these fictional civilizations that last for millennia don’t make sense. Why is this important? One word, immersion. People who know much about history will probably see your worlds very long history-without-much-change as unbelievable, thus destroying the immersion in the world that’s so important to engaging play. Though those who don’t know much history may not find it distracting at all.

Often, the very long histories are a form of self-indulgence, the writer writes what he wants even though it is hardly necessary to the game.

The funny thing is, it’s not necessary to have thousands of years of history to do what you want; a few hundreds of years will be just fine. What was our world like 500 years ago? The end of the Middle Ages, the recent discovery of the New World, the beginning of the end for Mesoamerican civilizations, China drawing back into isolation, the Ottoman Empire growing into Europe as it was no longer opposed by the no-longer-extant Byzantines, Russia still a benighted land fighting the Tartars, India dominated by Muslims, and so forth. Armies still included pikemen and others not yet armed with gunpowder weapons. The first circumnavigation of the world was being accomplished.

And that’s only 500 years ago.

Now if we go back 5,000 years there were nascent civilizations only in Mesopotamia and Egypt (China and Harappa (India) came later), and technological change was slow (though faster than we may think today because the changes were so fundamental, such as the development of writing). Iron-working had not yet been developed, bronze was very expensive, and horses were much too small to pull chariots, let alone to ride. When iron-working was developed it took many centuries to spread throughout the Old World.

Furthermore, a civilization with iron or steel armor and weapons, with well-developed ships, is not going to sit in stasis unless someone is deliberately trying to suppress change, as we see in some fantasy and science fiction stories (see David Weber’s Safehold series).

There are lots of reasons why civilizations cannot remain static - which is the primary way you’re likely to have histories thousands of years long, civilization in stasis. There are resource limitations: if you use iron for many centuries you’re going to use up easily accessible sources, and have to develop new technology to be able to continue to obtain iron ore. That’s true for many other resources, even renewable ones such as timber. If you irrigate land long enough (as in Mesopotamia), it begins to deteriorate from salt deposits. You can’t continue doing things the old way because the resources change.

And the longer your civilization goes on, the more you must change.

If you’re writing a separate setting, one that is not part of a particular game, then circumstances are somewhat different. There are so many supplements available, whether world settings or adventures, that you can’t really expect many people to use them directly in games even if they read them. In other words, many people are reading them for the story more than for their utility in a game. That’s compounded perhaps by the people whose RPGs are primarily storytelling machines and not opposed games. (There’s no possibility of failure.) Those folks are naturally going to read settings and adventures more as story than as game.

In these cases, indulging your storytelling bent at the expense of game makes perfect sense. So those long histories, if they are relevant to the stories, are no longer self-indulgence.

Rome (kingdom, republic, and empire) had a history approaching 1,000 years - more if you include another thousand for the Byzantine Empire that succeeded Rome, and called itself Roman. China has a history more than 2,000 years long. There were empires in Mesopotamia more than 4,000 years ago - but they were lost to memory until archaeologists excavated ancient mounds that turned out to have been great cities, that used fired-clay tablets to record information. A 3,000 year history is a very long time.

Of course, if YOU want to write thousands of years of history for your campaign or your RPG rules, that's your choice. It may help you create your game. But do you want to inflict all that history on the gamer? I enjoy history (that’s what my Ph.D. is in), but very long histories for games are not my preference. Your mileage may vary.

This article was contributed by Lewis Pulsipher (lewpuls) as part of EN World's Columnist (ENWC) program. Lew was Contributing Editor to Dragon, White Dwarf, and Space Gamer magazines and contributed monsters to TSR's original Fiend Folio, including the Elemental Princes of Evil, denzelian, and poltergeist. You can follow Lew on his web site and his Udemy course landing page. If you enjoy the daily news and articles from EN World, please consider contributing to our Patreon!
 

log in or register to remove this ad

Lewis Pulsipher

Lewis Pulsipher

Dragon, White Dwarf, Fiend Folio
...which is not to say that I disagree with the initial premise of this thread. Anyone familiar with my posting pattern will know I often point out that fantasy worlds often seem as if the people within them are not as clever as real human beings.

The various posts about magitech and Hussar’s point about the beetles both illustrate a point I frequently make about how someone, somewhere is going to make obvious advantages of magic critters and spells and try to make money with them, thereby improving society with them, etc., and thus, irrevocably change the world in the same way as was routinely discussed in the great science tv show, Connections.
 

log in or register to remove this ad

What fantasy settings also often have is civilizations of species with far longer lifespans than those of humans. We’ve see IRL that some ideas get supplanted and societal changes only after an actual generation (or more) dies off. With common fantasy races like Dwarves or Elves having lifespans an order of magnitude or two longer than humans, their societies may be far more resistant to change- at least, of certain kinds- than human cultures would be.

And if those fantasy races’ cultures were still the major powers in the world, their resistance to change could possibly also slow the mutation rate among the cultures of other, shorter lived races.

There are also individually potent actors, e.g., archmages or high priests, that can affect things, as well as gods or other beings who may act to slow change down (or not). I think the real world analogies of what's believable often forget those things. No matter how potent a political leader is, human lifespans are what they are in our world. This is not true in fantasy land: In Middle Earth, Sauron and his forces keep messing things up, for example, to say nothing of the problems humans have all on their own. He does it over and over again through the Third Age.
 

There are also individually potent actors, e.g., archmages or high priests, that can affect things, as well as gods or other beings who may act to slow change down (or not).
Yup! And that takes us back to the MM.

Absent sufficient magic (or tech) to fend it off, a single Red Dragon is a natural disaster on wings, and The Tarrasque going walkies is an ELE*. Should such a disaster strike in the wrong time & place, The would-be innovator becomes just another casualty, the idea born of a series of insights is lost for goodness knows how long.

Gods who would torture Prometheus for giving man the gift of fire might also be less than pleased with a fantasy world equivalent to Archimedes, Leonardo Da Vinci or Nicola Tesla.








* which reminds me that everything we’re talking about is something sci-fi can be just as guilty of. TV shows and especially movie series featuring kaiju will often save the world with tech...which is promptly forgotten the next time it would come in handy. Often, prior solutions aren’t even mentioned.
 
Last edited by a moderator:

Gods who would torture Prometheus for giving man the gift of fire might also be less than pleased with a fantasy world equivalent to Archimedes, Leonardo Da Vinci or Nicola Tesla.

Indeed, and that's actually a really good conflict one could set up that would break out of the standard "save the world from the evil dark lord" style: Followers of the "Old Ways" could be backed by the gods while followers of the "New Ways" could be arcane casters.


* which reminds me that everything we’re talking about is something sci-fi can be just as guilty of. TV shows and especially movie series featuring kaiju will often save the world with tech...which is promptly forgotten the next time it would come in handy. Often, prior solutions aren’t even mentioned.

It's narratively convenient how much forgetting goes on. ;) Another sci fi world building trope is the planet that seems to be only one thing, for instance, one giant desert that has a society that vaguely resembles an Old West frontier town.
 

Heh, Scarred Lands had an interesting take on things. The world was created by Titans, massively powerful beings that were individually capable of destroying and creating worlds. An age was defined by one titan gaining supremacy for a while, and whatever that particular titan's schtick was, shaped the world. Then, another Titan would get tired of things, wipe the slate clean, and start over.

So, while there were thousands upon thousands of years of civilizations in the world, they'd get wiped out and then next titan's civilization would rise.

Until the creation of the gods - beings that were powered by the beliefs of mortals - who then conspired with the mortals to destroy/imprison the Titans. The current setting is only a couple of centuries after that event.

Made for a bloody fantastic setting where it made sense that you had these incredibly old civilizations that were buried for millennia.

----

Stephen Erikson's Malazan series deals with this sort of thing quite well too.
 

Heh, Scarred Lands had an interesting take on things. The world was created by Titans, massively powerful beings that were individually capable of destroying and creating worlds. An age was defined by one titan gaining supremacy for a while, and whatever that particular titan's schtick was, shaped the world. Then, another Titan would get tired of things, wipe the slate clean, and start over.
<...> Made for a bloody fantastic setting where it made sense that you had these incredibly old civilizations that were buried for millennia.

I stole quite a bit from Scarred Lands for my own campaign world, although I didn't actually run Scarred Lands per se.

I should also note that there are advanced human societies where stasis was enforced by government policy: China went through such a period when one of the Ming Emperors set it on a very inward-looking path. The Japanese under the Tokugawa Shogunate banned essentially all foreign contact from about 1600 until Commodore Perry showed up in Edo Harbor in the 1850s. In both cases, substantial social change really only happened due to the pressure of external events. Absent that, I would not at all be surprised if things had just continued on for quite some time. There are other examples, even contemporary ones, where a state becomes focused on autarky and essentially freezes in place (North Korea, I'm looking at you... but there are other examples). The notion that "progress" is desirable is not universal. In sci fi settings like Gene Wolfe's Book of the New Sun this preferences for a decaying stasis is central.

Stephen Erikson's Malazan series deals with this sort of thing quite well too.

I'll have to check him out.
 

...which is not to say that I disagree with the initial premise of this thread. Anyone familiar with my posting pattern will know I often point out that fantasy worlds often seem as if the people within them are not as clever as real human beings.

The various posts about magitech and Hussar’s point about the beetles both illustrate a point I frequently make about how someone, somewhere is going to make obvious advantages of magic critters and spells and try to make money with them, thereby improving society with them, etc., and thus, irrevocably change the world in the same way as was routinely discussed in the great science tv show, Connections.

I think that's true to some degree, but a lot depends on the nature of the fantastical. For example, one could posit that it's essentially "forces of chaos" that hold those up, and that when brought into the "domain of law/civilization" much of that stops working. The fire beetle abdomen ceases to glow after it's been dead for a week or to and nobody's been able to successfully breed them. So the wilderness might be much grander and more fantastical than in Baron Yucktefratz's manor right in the middle of the Kingdom ruled by Good King Wenceslaus. This is not at all inconsistent with a lot of the kinds of tales from the Medieval era, where everyone knew their own home was mundane but deep in the woods, across the sea, in some foreign land, etc., things were much, much weirder and more mystical.

Also, I think that folks should probably recognize that not everybody is the kind of obsessive world building freak that a lot of us on this thread are. Many players simply don't care.

IMO one of the real verisimilitude breakers is the presence of cantrips like Light, Mending, Create Bonfire, or Firebolt. If you want to have a much more Medieval-feeling world, those really have to go. (They can be replaced in many cases by things like a cantrip that lets a caster use a crossbow or staff more effectively without the special effect.)
 

I don't see why a narrative device that works for a beloved fictional story won't work for a game world because it suddenly breaks immersion. Lord of the Rings has been adapted into several role playing games over the years. Did the unrealistic length of the game world's history cause a problem for many players? I don't think so.

You're absolutely right that 10,000 years of a culture not really changing very much isn't realistic. But when people sit down to play a fantasy role playing game I don't think it's a problem for most of them. They're already playing in a world with people who can turn into bears and fly on magic carpets.
 

IMO one of the real verisimilitude breakers is the presence of cantrips like Light, Mending, Create Bonfire, or Firebolt.

Any spell that is demonstrably better than modern reality spwould have to go. Continual Light/Continual Flame GREATLY reduces the risk of fire in a city, almost makes the Lamplighter’s Guild obsolete, and makes it a lot harder for Thieves’ Guilds to operate “under cover of darkness.”

I posited in another recent thread that any powerful nation with expansionist tendencies and a powerful navy would make learning spells like Magic Missile part of the basic training for “any sailor capable of learning” those spells- expanding the capacity of a ship’s crew to take down their opposite numbers with no fear of missing is too big of an advantage to ignore. I also noted that a similar requirement might be imposed by a government with a mindset similar to England’s when they passed laws making learning the longbow mandatory.
 

True, but one of the few design decisions in Eberron I disagree with is taking Keith's initial timeline and expanding it by a factor of 10 to make it more epic seeming. 10-15 years for the Last War and 200 years since the settlement of Khorvaire by Lhazaar feels a lot better to me than the actual timeline.
You’re right, that is a bit unlikely. Still, I think it makes more sense than FR.
 

Related Articles

Remove ads

Remove ads

Top