Worst game I ever ran.

[Piratecat]

Like others, I'm not sure you did anything wrong. Trying to figure out what I might have handled differently...

Encounter 1. Yeah, sometimes players skip awesome plot. I'd make sure this possibly comes back to bite them, but I'd let it go too.

Encounter 2: I'd hide, too, if something that looked just like an attack force came up. If you really want a roleplaying encounter that doesn't have the possibility of becoming hostile, make them obvious non-combatants. Maybe 1-3 dromites on foot, or riding non-combat mounts. In extremity give them a white flag.

If they choose to hide, that's okay. They don't get the information that the dromites had. When they figure out they want or need it, they can seek out the dromites themselves.

Encounter 3: They fail the encounter when they threaten her. She looks at them sadly, shakes her head, and disappears (maybe pointing towards the city, but saying nothing) -- obviously in physical pain due to the cyst corruption. The group says, "Huh. She didn't attack. Maybe we were wrong." And then they learn from that.

I think the important thing here is not to stop the game and tell them she's a good guy. That felt like railroading, maybe? I'm a big believer in giving the players the freedom to make dumb goofs.

Encounter 4: The PCs are going in blind. I'd have them see the ruined city in the distance. They'd probably bite at it, as it's a Clue (tm), so then I'd spring the dragon on 'em!


I wouldn't worry. Sounds like it was just one of those games. The next one will be better.

 

[am181d]

Encounter 2: I'd hide, too, if something that looked just like an attack force came up. If you really want a roleplaying encounter that doesn't have the possibility of becoming hostile, make them obvious non-combatants. Maybe 1-3 dromites on foot, or riding non-combat mounts. In extremity give them a white flag.

I suddenly had this vision of four dromites riding across the sands, jovially shoving at each other, laughing, fooling around. One starts singing Dromite opera while the others try to get him to shut up. Eventually they stop near the PC's hiding place and break out their lunch boxes, trading back and forth till they're satisfied. Then three of them take a mid-day nap while the last of them stands guard and goes back to singing his opera.

There are always ways to make creatures seem non-threatening...

 

[the Jester]

ok, so tuesday night I had a full break down of D&D...


The PCs are on a quest to gain 5 magic crystals to defeat my BBEG. The are in the dessert of crystal 4. I have 4 encounters planed.

encounter 1- a cyst that formed from the far realm, it is corrupting the land. the PCs quickly decide to just avoid it and there is nothing they can do.

This sounds fine.

encounter 2-this was an rp encounter, and the PCs would make a new ally. as the PCs are setting up camp they see 4 dromites ridding 2 bullets. They decide to hide. When I point out they never do that, I was told they wanted to try. So they all make awsome rolls.

Still fine.

encounter 3- a skill challange and combat togather...a spirit of the land wants to ask for help, and as she is there curropted by the cycst spirits attack them both.
But the PCs didn;t trust here and kept threatning her and pulled weapons, and until I stop the game thought she was a bad guy setting them up.

So I had to go out of game and say "Guys, she is one of the last not corrupted" before they got it. after that fight they ask her about the crystal. She tells them that in the center of the dessert is a city that was ruined by an evil adamantine dragon that now claims the citu. Under the city is a series of caves in those caves is the crystal.

D'oh!!

IMHO, or at least IMP (in my playstyle), you should never stop the game to explain what choices the party should make. The fun of the game is making choices and seeing what happens, and dm interference with that is one of the biggest DMing Sins (again, IMP). A TPK is far preferable.

so they go to the city... and expect an extended rest...but run into a dragon (yea big suprise) The PCs assumed the dragon would be the end boss of the caves, even though I told them it was in the city...

then a PC died in the fight.

Oh noes, a pc died in a fight with a bad-ass monster in a game where dying is very possible!!!

That said, it sounds like you had a very specific sequence of events and choices that you wanted the party to follow. That's probably the problem right there.

Every encounter, or darn close, should be a possible roleplaying encounter, and a possible combat encounter, depending on the choices the pcs make. It isn't really up to you, and it shouldn't be. If the pcs burn down the farmer's house where the clues were, well, they won't find those clues. If the pcs try to negotiate with those orcs, well, given sufficient Diplomacy or other social skills, they should be able to do so. And so on.

Having an A->B->C map for your game is a terrible thing, because as soon as many players detect the railroad they start trying to throw it off the track. I know that one of my flaws as a player is a complete willingness to blow the railroad to hell, which means I try to avoid railroady games- they aren't satisfying for me to play in, and I might spoil the gm's enjoyment.

Basically, I'd say let the pcs do as they will and suffer the consequences for it.

 

[korjik]

Alot of people seem to be making an assumption about encounter 3.

GM said 'So I had to go out of game and say "Guys, she is one of the last not corrupted" before they got it'

He didnt say: 'You guys are supposed to be friends with this spirit'

He had to stop the game because there was an extreme disconnect between what he was saying and what the players were understanding. He didnt tell them what they were supposed to do, but that what they thought was going on was not correct in a rather extreme manner.

It is sort of like this:

Player 1:'We are low on supplies and magic, I dont think we can take out a red dragon'
Player 2:'I agree, I would rather risk the werewolves in the forest than try to take out a dragon in a city'
Player 3:'No one has survived a night in the forest in 30 years, and it would violate the Fang treaty'
Player 1:'Well, we will teach them not to mess with us if they have a problem with us camping for the night'
Player 2:'Yeah, and we can sell the pelts to that lich in charge of Blackmoor for alot of cash!'
Player 4:'Yeah! Lets do it!'

Now, do you have your campaign turn into a massive war between the werewolves and the humans, with the players hated by everyone for stupidly starting a war, or do you go:

DM:'Dudes, I said the Red Dragon INN.....'

 

[olshanski]

Looks pretty railroady to me based on your description.

For example: The dromites ridding 2 bullets. you say "This is an RP encounter where the PCs can make allies". Why is it an RP encounter? Who made that decision?

Why not: "This is an encounter with dromites riding bullets". Then, if the PCs decide to pick a fight, it becomes a combat encounter. If the PCs decide to hide, it becomes a skill encounter. If the PCs decide to strike up conversation, it becomes an RP encounter.

Now you have the exact same encounter, but the PCs cannot mess up your plans (because you didn't have specific plans). The PCs get to play and take a more active role in the course of the game... and your session is not "ruined" because you didn't have anything specifically required of the players.

The key to running this type of game is to prepare the elements of drama, and let the players decide what happens.

For your encounters, it is always good to have 1 back-up motivation for the monsters just in case the PCs decide they want to talk. Maybe the monster has lost something, has a grudge against someone, or is looking for something.

As the PCs get more used to knowing that their actions have consequences, you might find a day when they are more in the mood to fight, in which case there is mostly combat encounters... and other times if the PCs are in a talkative mood, they might try to parley with everyone/everything they meet.

 

[Deset Gled]

My list of suggestions for you:

1. Don't let one bad session, or one PC death, get to you.
2. Be a little more flexible. Have alternate endings and alternate encounters planned out ahead of time (or possibly just plan less).
3. Work with your players to get a better idea of expectations. Focus on learning when their characters will chose to roleplay rather than fight, and how much fighting they expect in a session.
4. Proofread.

 

[steeldragons]

Pretty sure I'm with just about everyone here.

You didn't do anything wrong.

Yeah, there is a moment or two that could be interpreted as railroady...but honestly, just about any situation presented by any DM anywhere can seem railroady.

For myself, personally...dromites aside...if I saw two bullettes coming over the dunes, I'd hide too! Those things're tough!

The fact that things didn't work out/the players took the course the way you planned...

WELCOME TO DMing! Set yerself down a spell in the DM Lounge and have a lil' drinky.

I am thoroughly tempted to point out, I suppose this scenario is a potential pitfall for "GMing for powergamers"...but...well...oh, ok. There I said it anyway.

Yes, I understand, I would be expecting the group of powergamers to insist on interacting with every encounter, too...most likely in a confrontational way.

But the fact they didn't...hey, free willed players are a bitch. You [meaning the collective DM "you"] pick up the shattered pieces of your plot and move on.

Again, no, you did nothing wrong. The fact the players were dissatisfied is entirely on them...their actions drove the story in the direction it went...as it should be.

If they want to get pissy about a PC death...um, don't play D&D....if they want to get pissy about no good encounters...again, on them. They should have engaged instead of hid.

But you, as you [GMforPowergamers] obviously know, can't MAKE them do that.

The session was nicely planned out, from what I can tell/you tell us...you did nothing objectively "wrong."

Would *I* have stopped game to set them straight on the nature spirit? No, probably not. But I wouldn't say it was "wrong."

The results? That's on the players.

Good luck with future sessions. Have fun and happy gaming.
--Steel Dragons

 

[GMforPowergamers]

ok, so first to all of you that think this was a rail road... why would I let them avoid 2 encounters (one of witch was suppose to lead to a major event) if I was railroading?

the spirits of the land I had to go out of game for becuse none of them where at all on the same page as me... so I had to clarafy.

More info: She appear as a beutifal half elf dressed in skimpy silk cloths but with eladrin eyes. She spoke sweetly and quitely but her voice carried. She had no weapons and introduced her self as one of the last of the ture sand spirits. When they asked to make insight rolls they identfiyed she was not aggressive or a threat. When they rolled arcane they figured out she was similar to a nymph or dryad but for sand. She offered help and information and got an intimadate check and a gun (we have house rule flint locks) waved at her.
when she said she could sense true heroes in them and they would not shoot her other party memebers pulled out guns and bows and sai "wanna bet"

when the fight with the corrupted spirits started I described them as looking like pale versions of her with purple vains running threw them and mind flyer fingers, I then told them OBVIUSLY curropted spirits form the cysts you saw before.

round 1 of the fight went fine with them attacking the corrupted ones and her helping BUT round 2 begain with a PC shooting her and them all saying she was there leader.

I said "Wait...there is no reason to asume that" when I then added "She is the last NOT CORRUPT one" they all looked around and talked out of game for amoment.

_____________________________

also FYI they have made allies to fight Kingdom (my BBEG) every where they go. about half of my races are good and want to help, a quater are neutral and afraid (but can be convinced) and a quater are evil and very hard to deal with.

the only sides they can not expect to talk to are 1) Kingdom and the far realm forces he controls, 2) the Undead, 3) the demon worshiping chaotic evil gnolls who hate all life but there own.
___________________

one of the compaints I got for tuesday night was "You didn't come prepared, there was nothing but fights, no rp" a second compaint I got was "The dragon was too powerful, it must have been more the 5 or 6 levels above the party" and a third one was "There was no way to stop the cycst, or make any allies this time...this was too hard, why was everything a fight"

 

[MarkB]

I don't have a Monster Manual handy, but wouldn't bullettes notice hiding creatures via tremorsense, unless they were able to take specific precautions against that?

 

[haakon1]

I have frequently used what is sometimes referred to as "reflection" when I DM.
. . .
In response, I "reflect" those actions and fears....
. . .
I recently planned out a small fire beetle intro encounter, that turned into a beetle swarm from hell that nearly comsumed an entire outpost because the players got super paranoid. And you know what....What they came up with was way more interesting then what I had originally planned. I ran with it and it turned out awesome.
. . .
In your case, if your players avoid the cyst....I might validate those fears. People start having nightmares, madness starts creeping into people's dreams. Normal creatures start appearing that are corrupted by its influence. Maybe have something contact the heroes that can provide "protection" or a "weapon" to use against it that gives the players confidence that this is something they can tackle. If they choose to ignore it again...well there is only so much you can do

I don't like this approach to DMing. I think of it as "moving the goalposts".

In your case, if the players think Random Harmless NPC #23 is the BBEG, maybe he IS the evil guy after all. So the difficulty of the campaign is set to "easy".

The way other people do it (worse, I think) is if the players figure out the BBEG's secret identity correctly, change the background so it was really Random Harmless NPC #23 all along, just to string out the story/so the players can't "win" too earlier. Setting the difficulty to "rat b@[MENTION=9321]star[/MENTION]d DM/unwinnable".

I prefer to run and player in a setting where if Random Harmless NPC #23 is harmless, no amount of player paranoia will change who he is. Call it "sometimes a cigar is just a cigar" DMing. In other words, if they figure it all out, great. If not, that's fine too -- eventually, things will fall into place and there will be an "aha" moment where they get what's really happening.

With the ally situation, try to drop hints that these creatures appear non-violent, or at the least non-threatening. Some players are used to the "all npcs are monsters" mindset so this can sometimes be hard to tackle.
. . .
You can give them a few different opportunities to befriend them, but if not....thats just one choice they chose not to make.

I agree with your advice here. You need to have lots of trustworthy NPC's in a campaign to breakdown player paranoia, if you want a world that isn't just "kill everything in sight, it might be a threat!"

Another great tool to use is "Foreshadowing". When your heroes start to make their way into the city....start to make it abundantly clear that something large, carnivorous, and hungry lives there. Piles of bones....fresh scorch marks....fresh claw marks on the buildings...dragon droppings....you name it. Leave plenty of warnings. Sometimes PC's miss that time you mentioned the dragon lived in the city and not the caves. Giving them warnings like the above without directly stating "HEY THE DRAGON IS IN THE CITY DUMBASS" can help them remember And if they go in anyway well.....Dragon's gotta eat.

More good advice. Show, don't tell.