Worthwhile Paladin Spells.

[Voadam]

Lesser restoration. It might not cure all the damage you take but at high levels every healed point of con gives you more hit points than at low levels. Definitely a worthwile one.

Dispel magic is extremely useful still for use against items. My 15th level wizard flies in winged boots that have a caster level of 5 and are a big vulnerability for him as demonstrated by the last BBEG in a flying fight over a cloudkill cloud.

 

[Nail]

Lesser restoration almost always makes my NPC paladin's list. (You'll note the "NPC" part of that statement. )

Bless Weapon seemed quite useful....but the paladin never used it.

Eagle's Splendor is a very nice "boost yer Lay-on-hands" spell...but only after a battle is over, or you have prep time. +2 hp per paladin level.......

 

[Lord Pendragon]

I think the problem comes from a specific philosophical disconnect about the role those spells are meant to play.

I think your analysis is spot-on, Carpe DM.

Spells that reflect camp two: Divine Favor (now), Dispel Magic, Bull's Strength, Greater Magic Weapon, Break Enchantment, all the healing spells. These are good spells -- just useless for Paladins.

Absolutely. I really don't understand why the designers chose to give paladins (and rangers) a 1/2 caster level at all. The fact that they are already limited to 4th-level spells, which they receive far later than an equivalent-level cleric or druid, ensures that they'll be nothing like a true spellcaster. But at least with a full caster level, their 4th-level spells would be 4th-level spells. As things stand, a paladin or ranger's 4th-level spells simply aren't as powerful as 4th-level spells. The nerfed CL makes them more equivalent to 3rd or 2nd-level spells.

The -3 caster level houserule is quite good, IMO. My problem is that I don't *use* houserules unless the problem is destroying the game. But it might be a solution in your game.

I sent my DM an email asking him if he'd consider the house rule. Perhaps I should send him a link to this thread as well.

Dispel magic is extremely useful still for use against items. My 15th level wizard flies in winged boots that have a caster level of 5 and are a big vulnerability for him as demonstrated by the last BBEG in a flying fight over a cloudkill cloud.

That's an interesting point I hadn't considered. Granted, I've been playing 3.x since it came out and not once have I ever seen Dispel Magic used against an item, so I think this use is, to put it mildly, rare. But it's something to keep in mind.

If you're that bothered by the paladin's spellcasting (I'm not, btw, he's a warrior primarily, not a spellcaster)

It's true that he's not primarily a spellcaster, but he most certainly has spells. The fact that he's mainly a warrior is embodied in the fact that he only gets four levels of spells. I see no reason why the four spell levels he gets need also be nearly useless for most practical purposes.

Your advice is well taken, though. The next time I start playing a new campaign and want to play a paladin, I'll certainly bring up the UA rules with the DM. For the time being, though, I'm playing in a game that is mostly core. I'm hoping my DM will consider adjusting the caster level as per the recommendation here in this thread, but I'm not going to be able to rewrite the PC, nor would I want to.

 

[argo]

Re: Holy Beacon and Holy Beacon's Answer probably the two coolest Pally spells ever.

Holy Beacon: A 1st level Pally spell, lasts one day and with a range of 1mile/level squared. The pally casts the spell on himself and if certain conditions occur the beacon is triggered generating a huge signal in the sky (regardless of weither or not the pally is undergound, underwater, etc) the color depending on the conndition.
red: unconscious in combat
orange: unconscious not in combat
yellow: critical hunger or thirst
blue: pally triggers beacon voluntairly
white: dead pally, lasts for 24 hours after death
Only other paladins can see the beacon and higher level paladins have a % chance to sense the beacon even if visibility would prevent seeing it.

Holy Beacon's Answer: a 4th level Pally spell, will teleport without error the pally (and only the pally) to the location of a beacon he has seen. Caution! You might be jumping into a trap!


Relics and Rituals also has quite a few other cool Paladin spells but, like most R&R spells, they are quite broken.

And yes, I use caster level = level -3 for both Paladins and Rangers in my games.

Later.

 

[Ridley's Cohort]

I feel your pain.

I have an 8th level Paladin. The spells I regularly get good use out of are Bless Weapon, Protection from Evil, Magic Weapon (until I got a +1 weapon at 7th level), Bless Weapon, Bull's Strength, Resist Elements, and Bless Weapon.

Protection from Evil and Bull's Strength are my top choice spells when I have my mount with me and I can use Share Spell. A 24 Str horse fights much better than I ever could.

Did I mention Bless Weapon?

Trick 1: Look for spells that you can cast off a scroll. The perfect example is Remove Paralysis. As a 3rd level caster you can cast this spell from a scroll perfectly even though you could not prep it yourself until 8th or 9th.

Trick 2: Have a Wand of Lesser Restoration made with you as the caster of the spell. As a 1st level spell with a 2nd level caster, it is much cheaper than the standard one made by a cleric caster. Ditto scrolls. Yes, it is cheesy, but us Paladins are so nickel and dimed when it comes to spells, we need every teeny edge we can find. 1500 gp for a fully charge wand, 50 gp for a scroll. Good deal that.

Philosophically speaking, my biggest problem with the Paladin class is it has negative synergy with the Cleric class, while it is living in the same "ecological niche" as the Fighter/Cleric -- a combo with fabulous synergy.

A Paladin/Fighter is OK. A Paladin/Cleric by the core rules just plain sucks. A Fightern/Cleric1 is an excellent combo.

The Paladin class looks fine when compared to other straight-classed characters with core classes. They lose out quite a bit when you start throwing in multiclasses + Paragon levels + PrCs...

 

[Lord Pendragon]

Protection from Evil and Bull's Strength are my top choice spells when I have my mount with me and I can use Share Spell. A 24 Str horse fights much better than I ever could.

I actually haven't used Bless Weapon yet. Since I got 1st-level spells two levels ago, I've been sticking to Protection from Evil. As my pally doesn't have a Ring of Protection or a Vest of Resistance yet, the defensive goodness from that spell is very nice. It is definitely not a spell to complain about. Once I get a hold of a ring and/or vest, though, I'll probably switch over to Bless Weapon. The auto-crit is nice. Better if I had a keen weapon, though eventually there's the Scabbard of Keen Edges to look forward to.

Trick 1: Look for spells that you can cast off a scroll. The perfect example is Remove Paralysis. As a 3rd level caster you can cast this spell from a scroll perfectly even though you could not prep it yourself until 8th or 9th.

I already picked up scrolls of Magic Weapon and Bless Weapon for contingencies. I'll have to take your advice when I get the chance. Remove Paralysis is definitely a good scroll to have.

Trick 2: Have a Wand of Lesser Restoration made with you as the caster of the spell. As a 1st level spell with a 2nd level caster, it is much cheaper than the standard one made by a cleric caster. Ditto scrolls. Yes, it is cheesy, but us Paladins are so nickel and dimed when it comes to spells, we need every teeny edge we can find. 1500 gp for a fully charge wand, 50 gp for a scroll. Good deal that.

Wow. I hadn't thought of this at all. Very nice.

The Paladin class looks fine when compared to other straight-classed characters with core classes. They lose out quite a bit when you start throwing in multiclasses + Paragon levels + PrCs...

Yeah. And to be honest, power really isn't my biggest beef with paladin spellcasting. In the game I currently play in, almost everyone plays a single-classed core class. I haven't felt inferior to anyone, unless you count the druid and her animal companion (which should change once I pick up my special mount at 8th-level. ) My problem is that spellcasting is supposed to be a feature of the paladin class, but in reality it is virtually a non-feature. Add to that the fiasco that is Remove Disease, and I just had to rant.

 

[Darklone]

That's an interesting point I hadn't considered. Granted, I've been playing 3.x since it came out and not once have I ever seen Dispel Magic used against an item, so I think this use is, to put it mildly, rare. But it's something to keep in mind.

Dispelling items is pretty often more useful, that it's so rare is more a problem with player habits than effectivity IMHO. Asking in my group how many actually know it can be done... probably 1. And I'm not sure that one would know that the CL for many items is so low.

Actually I'm sure he does not know.

I do agree that the casterlevel nerf for paladins and rangers doesn't make sense when we look at their spell list.

 

[Ridley's Cohort]

Until I got my first +1 weapon, I usually prepped Magic Weapon and Bless Weapon. We would meet a lot of outsiders, so aligning the weapon was pretty valuable for me. I kept a scroll of Magic Weapon and Protection from Evil handy.

Now, at 8th level, I prep Bless Weapon, Protection from Evil, and Bull's Strength. I keep scrolls of Magic Weapon, Bless Weapon, Protection from Evil, Lesser Restoration (cheapie version), Resist Elements, and Remove Paralysis handy.

Bless Weapon will not stack with Keen. Says so in spell description.

Some tricks I have been considering, but have not had a chance to try...

Critical or Nothing!: Bless Weapon + Improved Crit + rapier/falchion + full Power Attack vs. evil. Tune your PA way up. The normal analysis for PA does not apply to you because of the autoconfirm on the threat. Throw in Smite Evil if you want real excitement. I will have to crunch the numbers sometime...

Shield Each Other: Use Share Spell with Shield Other. The net effect is all HP damage is split roughly equally. This prevents the opposition from trying to pick on either the rider or the mount, and it lets the paladin gain some benefit from the mount's Improved Evasion. Our HPs and AC are pretty similar, so there is little downside. (This could be fun in an extended mass battle, but it is going to be second choice behind Bull's Strength in the fast, brutal skirmishes adventurers run into.)

 

[Lord Pendragon]

Now, at 8th level, I prep Bless Weapon, Protection from Evil, and Bull's Strength. I keep scrolls of Magic Weapon, Bless Weapon, Protection from Evil, Lesser Restoration (cheapie version), Resist Elements, and Remove Paralysis handy

This looks exactly like my current plan. However, my DM is considering changing paladin/ranger CL to level-3, so perhaps I'll be able to sneak in a Divine Favor or two as well.

Bless Weapon will not stack with Keen. Says so in spell description.

*sigh* Well, better to know that now and not get my heart set on it.

Critical or Nothing!: Bless Weapon + Improved Crit + rapier/falchion + full Power Attack vs. evil. Tune your PA way up. The normal analysis for PA does not apply to you because of the autoconfirm on the threat. Throw in Smite Evil if you want real excitement. I will have to crunch the numbers sometime...

Is the Falchion really necessary here? If you go total PA, you're likely going to need a 20 to hit anyway. Works as well with a greatsword.

Shield Each Other: Use Share Spell with Shield Other. The net effect is all HP damage is split roughly equally. This prevents the opposition from trying to pick on either the rider or the mount, and it lets the paladin gain some benefit from the mount's Improved Evasion. Our HPs and AC are pretty similar, so there is little downside. (This could be fun in an extended mass battle, but it is going to be second choice behind Bull's Strength in the fast, brutal skirmishes adventurers run into.)

Now this is a neat combo. This thread has given me a couple of them. I agree that Bull's Strength on rider/mount is a powerful choice, but I think there may definitely be times when Shield Other, using this trick, is a lifesaver.

Hrm. Divine Favor would affect the rider and mount as well, wouldn't it...

 

[kigmatzomat]

Curse of the Brute from the splat books is also a handy Mount+Rider spell. You burn off some mental stats and trade them for physical ones. Nothing like adding a bit more smack or HPs to the mounted warrior. Our in-party name for it is "Jyhad."