Lord Ravinous
First Post
I was wondering if replacing the present Sorcerer in the PHB with the Wilder from the Wheel of Time RPG would be reasonably balanced? All drawbacks to it would still apply(ex. Madness for Male Channelers)
WoT Channeler(Wilder) vs. D&D Sorcerer?
- Thread starter Lord Ravinous
- Start date
Archibald Theocliste
First Post
Sorry if I am direct but this is not balanced.
We are talking here about replacing the sorcerer with a class wich gains :
d6 HD, 4 sp/lv, 2 good saves and a medium one, a slow aging ability, 7 bonus metamagic feats and the ability to cast 5th level spells as soon as 7th level.
I admit I already use a d6 HD/4 sp variant of the sorcerer in my campaign (we definitively accepted the concept of an unarmored battlemage) but the wilder is definitively not to use outside of the wheel of time setting without a lot of works.
We are talking here about replacing the sorcerer with a class wich gains :
d6 HD, 4 sp/lv, 2 good saves and a medium one, a slow aging ability, 7 bonus metamagic feats and the ability to cast 5th level spells as soon as 7th level.
I admit I already use a d6 HD/4 sp variant of the sorcerer in my campaign (we definitively accepted the concept of an unarmored battlemage) but the wilder is definitively not to use outside of the wheel of time setting without a lot of works.
Archibald Theocliste
First Post
Ooops, forgot to ask. do you intend to use an overchanneling-like system?
Lord Ravinous
First Post
Ya, every hinderance would apply, Madness, Overchanneling, and the like. I just think that the sorcerer is quite bland.
Now to the balance factor, the Wilder may get a d6 HD, 4+INT skill pts, and light armor, but he also (if male) incures the madness, overchanneling, and lowered selection of spells.
With this change the sorcerer gets sum spunk, and isn't just a knock-off wizard with poor spell progression. The only obvious thing I would leave out would be the Defense bonus(dunno why i put that down, thats a given for dnd, but there may be someone that would mention it
)
Now to the balance factor, the Wilder may get a d6 HD, 4+INT skill pts, and light armor, but he also (if male) incures the madness, overchanneling, and lowered selection of spells.
With this change the sorcerer gets sum spunk, and isn't just a knock-off wizard with poor spell progression. The only obvious thing I would leave out would be the Defense bonus(dunno why i put that down, thats a given for dnd, but there may be someone that would mention it
)
Lord Ravinous
First Post
Depends on whos runnin' it, eh?
Lord Ravinous
First Post
I was actually thinkin about that
Now that you brought it up I'll put some more thought into it.
Now that you brought it up I'll put some more thought into it.
Archibald Theocliste
First Post
Well it seems that you decided to give them a try so I won't try to stop you here. But I would point a few things before you throw the wilders at your players.
Ok, madness for everybody is a good idea. The actual system makes the male wilders at best annoying to play compared to their female conterpart.
You should remove the overchanneling. DD3 was not created to support casters PC able to cast a nearly infinite amount of 3rd lv spells. It's not a problem in WoT, but it is when spells like a 10d6 fireball are 3rd lv in DD3. On the other hand, madness for everybody and the risk of loosing all spellcasting abilities may force your players to think twice before abusing overchanneling. But I can garantee you that you'll see this ability abused anyway.
The spell table is unusable as in the WoTCS. No class in DD3 should be able to cast 5th lv spells at 7th level and 3rd lv spells at 4th level (or something like that, I don't have my book at hand for now, but it must be very close). A lot of prestige classes and all the monster CR are calculated with this fact in mind.
Well of course this is only my point of view about this class in DD3, just my 2cp so you can throw ugly things at me if you want (but please not stingy or sharp things, I prefer people who throw at me some food, OH YES THROW ME SOME FOOD, I DESERVE IT, PLEASE BE CRUEL, NO PITY HERE -preferably meat, I'm not to addict to vegetables-
)Err.... well anyway don't forget to carrefully close all your windows if you have any wizard players or else they may decide to jump thru once they see the almighty firepower of the wilders
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Personal Experience!!!
I have presonaly experienced the WOT magic system from the DMs perspective.
My group recently converted all of our spellcasters (wizard.cleric, sorcerer, etc.) into channeling classes (Wilder & Initiate). The games seemed pretty cool once the DM frightens the players into NOT overchanneling every chance they get (in fact my group never overchanneled, even once).
I even gave one of the casters a magic item that allowed him to cast spells 1 level higher than the spell slot he was using. [This was the weekest magic item of its kind, since they range in power from +1 to +6]
Multiclass Wilder/Initiates can quickly gain all five elemental affinities (2nd or 3rd lvl not sure which). This allows them to essentialy cast all their known spells using a spell slot 1 level lower than normal.
All of the spells have builtin metamagic effects (for FREE!).
The spell "Harden Air" allows casters to imobalize and kill creatures with a reflex save, no mater what their level. They simply need to cast the spell at a high enophe level to contain a creatures size. Then they simly suffacate.
MY OPINION
=========
None of the spells seem to be ballanced against standard d&d spells. The damaging spells are weeker than standard d&d spells of similar leve (but after considering a caster with all affinities and a +1 slot item "angrel") you realy endup comparing these spells to d&d spells at least 2 levels lower. There is also the potential for casters to overchannel spells well beyond the 9th level spell limit.
Some of the non-damaging spells ("Harden Air"), are extreamly more powerful than d&d spells.
Non caster characters seem dull and boring compared to channelers.
I have presonaly experienced the WOT magic system from the DMs perspective.
My group recently converted all of our spellcasters (wizard.cleric, sorcerer, etc.) into channeling classes (Wilder & Initiate). The games seemed pretty cool once the DM frightens the players into NOT overchanneling every chance they get (in fact my group never overchanneled, even once).
I even gave one of the casters a magic item that allowed him to cast spells 1 level higher than the spell slot he was using. [This was the weekest magic item of its kind, since they range in power from +1 to +6]
Multiclass Wilder/Initiates can quickly gain all five elemental affinities (2nd or 3rd lvl not sure which). This allows them to essentialy cast all their known spells using a spell slot 1 level lower than normal.
All of the spells have builtin metamagic effects (for FREE!).
The spell "Harden Air" allows casters to imobalize and kill creatures with a reflex save, no mater what their level. They simply need to cast the spell at a high enophe level to contain a creatures size. Then they simly suffacate.
MY OPINION
=========
None of the spells seem to be ballanced against standard d&d spells. The damaging spells are weeker than standard d&d spells of similar leve (but after considering a caster with all affinities and a +1 slot item "angrel") you realy endup comparing these spells to d&d spells at least 2 levels lower. There is also the potential for casters to overchannel spells well beyond the 9th level spell limit.
Some of the non-damaging spells ("Harden Air"), are extreamly more powerful than d&d spells.
Non caster characters seem dull and boring compared to channelers.
