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D&D 5E WotC: 5 D&D Settings In Development?

WotC's Ray Winninger spoke a little about some upcoming D&D settings -- two classic settings are coming in 2022 in formats we haven't seen before, and two brand new (not Magic: the Gathering) settings are also in development, as well as return to a setting they've already covered in 5E. He does note, however, that of the last three, there's a chance of one or more not making it to release, as they develop more than they use.

settinss.jpg

Two classic settings? What could they be?

So that's:
  • 2 classic settings in 2022 (in a brand new format)
  • 2 brand new settings
  • 1 returning setting
So the big questions -- what are the two classic settings, and what do they mean by a format we haven't seen before? Winninger has clarified on Twitter that "Each of these products is pursuing a different format you've never seen before. And neither is "digital only;" these are new print formats."

As I've mentioned on a couple of occasions, there are two more products that revive "classic" settings in production right now.

The manuscript for the first, overseen by [Chris Perkins], is nearly complete. Work on the second, led by [F. Wesley Schneider] with an assist from [Ari Levitch], is just ramping up in earnest. Both are targeting 2022 and formats you've never seen before.

In addition to these two titles, we have two brand new [D&D] settings in early development, as well as a return to a setting we've already covered. (No, these are not M:tG worlds.)

As I mentioned in the dev blog, we develop more material than we publish, so it's possible one or more of these last three won't reach production. But as of right now, they're all looking great.


Of course the phrase "two more products that revive 'classic' settings" could be interpreted in different ways. It might not be two individual setting books.
 
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Russ Morrissey

Russ Morrissey

Well it can't be Ravensloft as we have two books for it so far. We technically already have two books for Crit-Roll so I feel like Tal'Dora(sp?) is out. And Eberron would only make sense if it was an Adventure Path since 5E has an Eberron setting book. technically two if you unofficially count Exploring Eberron. Okay three due to Wayfarer's Guide to Eberron. Which would still make it two books already for Ebero-oh you know what I bloody mean.*

Since the SCAG is in need of an update, and there are a few things from there that haven't been reprinted yet, when compared to all the other reprints that have appeared/happened, a Forgotten Realms/Faerun book makes sense if we are gonna be revisiting a setting again.
 

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teitan

Legend
Planejammer fans, here is an idea. Why not collab on something for DMSGuild? While it’s arguably derivative it is also unique and it’s not like WOtC has the trademark on flying boats and stuff. You could totally do a plane hopping, space flying boat rules set and setting that will fit your bill, and I’d imagine a lot of other people, moreso than when WOtC tries to maintain their Planescape and Spelljammer trademarks with independent books.
 


That said... I would still hold hope for Planesjammer rather than strict Spelljammer. Tack on some ways to travel from Wildspace to Astral Space and head to different planes. Especially since Crawford talks about the planes having "Fuzzy Edges"

My idea for a harmony of the two ideas was that the crystal spheres are wildspace filled bubbles floating in the astral sea. The phlogiston is iridescent ribbons strung between the crystal spheres that act as a slipstream.
 


Hatmatter

Laws of Mordenkainen, Elminster, & Fistandantilus
I flipped through the DMG, and it does not look like the phlogiston is mentioned. It may be and I missed it, or mentioned in another book.

The Astral Plane is mentioned specifically as the realm connecting all the planes together, as well as the realm where Githyanki roam. Considering how the Githyanki (and Mind Flayers too) are confirmed to traverse the Material Plane from the Astral (see Dungeon of the Mad Mage), it could be assumed that the Phlogiston has just been merged with the Astral in 5E.
It could be assumed that...except that Chris Perkins and Jeremy Crawford on Dragon Talk over the last five or six years, when discussing Crystal Spheres, have not shown a predilection for dramatically altering the D&D cosmology in such a way.

People have mentioned Van Richten’s Guide as a precedent for turning Spelljammer into a Planejammer setting. But Van Richten’s guide has not altered the established D&D cosmology of the Domains of Dread. In a forum thread a year or two ago, someone claimed that the D&D cosmology behind the Domains of Dread was basically out the window because of (what turned out to be a misreading by that person of) Curse of Strahd. I wrote at the time that eliminating the Domains of Dread or revealing the Dark Lords did not seem consistent with what I was hearing from the designers in Dragon Talk. Van Richten’s Guide has now confirmed that impression with which Dragon Talk left me. The alterations to the Domains of Dread don’t alter the basic premise.

Changing space faring to plane shifting alters the basic premise of Spelljammer. I don’t want to step on anyone’s fun...and plane shifting can always be incorporated into Spelljammer. So, traveling the astral plane with a Spelljammer ship could always be done and will be able to be done in the future. But the designers are fans and, like fans, embrace the Spelljamming lore.

Finally, Crawford has continually claimed that the various D&D worlds are in the same plane, to such an extent that he said that if one has the sigil code, one can use Teleport to teleport from, for example, Krynn to Oerth because they are in the same Prime Material Plane. If the Astral Plane was separating Krynn and Oerth, then that would suggest (to me at least) that they are not on the same plane.

Anything can be changed, of course, but I am with those who think this Planejammer idea is a fan idea with no basis in what the Wizards designers have said over the years. In this case, these fans want the Spelljammer setting changed at the fundamental level and the Wizards designers are upholding the original setting’s explanations.
 

AdmundfortGeographer

Getting lost in fantasy maps
Not sure a flintlock and gunpowder Planejammer D&D would land well. It’d be cool as hell.

A Spelljammer/Planescape with Red Steel’s ubiquitous belt/horse pistols would be stylish.
 

Fenris-77

Small God of the Dozens
I think they'd probably come up with a bespoke alchemical or magical equivalent to firearms rather than go the black powder way. You really do need braces of pistols to do pirates properly though.
 

Urriak Uruk

Debate fuels my Fire
They leave their options open, particularly for DMs. This setup, however, matches the world as they have presented it in official channels, such as livestreams.

Not consistently. In MtG official channels, they contradict this video by pointing out that the Forgotten Realms and MtG do not share the same multiverse.

To that end, it's worth noting that the upcoming Magic set Adventures in the Forgotten Realms is not part of Universes Beyond. For now, we're reserving the Universes Beyond branding for worlds outside those built by Wizards of the Coast. As to whether the Forgotten Realms are now canonically part of Magic's Multiverse, for now, the answer is no. But we may change our minds in the future if it makes sense and is a fun net positive for Magic and D&D.


So there still isn't any consistent "multiversal theory" for how everything fits together... I'm not sure we'll ever got one.
 

Faolyn

Hero
The Astral Plane is the Astral Sea in the Great Wheel Cosmology. Because the Astral Sea is just a name.
Yeah, I know. But the cosmology is laid out differently, from what I gather.

Maybe say the Astral Plane is "Fuzzy" in deep space. So if you traverse enough Wildspace you cross into the Astral Sea and go Planesjamming. Tadaaaaaah! Problem resolved.
But that even further erodes the coolness of space and the differences of things you find in space versus the things you find in the planes. At that point, you might as well just go a step further and remove the Outer and Inner Planes entirely and put them all on the far reaches of the Material Plane.

Which, in and of itself, is a decent enough idea for a setting. The gods aren't some distant dream; they live right over there, on that mountain top or in that grove. But that is neither Planescape nor Spelljammer.

OK, an example:

I've had an idea--haven't done anything with it yet--to make Spelljammer a bit more space opera-y/Trekkie in nature by taking a bunch of Planescape stuff and sticking it in there. First, get rid of all the planes, except for the Shadowfell and Feywild. If the gods exist, they do so somewhere in those planes. Although there are some beings of godlike power floating around. Whatever; clerics get spells. All inhabited worlds only have a tiny handful of sentient species (like, 1d4). Fiends and celestials are rare Precursor races, not beings of pure good and evil created out of dead souls. Celestials do try to impose their goodness on the universe, but some have a warped idea of what goodness is. Fiends are evil, but a much more identifiable and realistic evil. They don't care about souls and cults; they want slave labor (both living and undead) and biomagically-created pets and tools for their conquered worlds, which are mostly destroyed due to their greed and negligence and are held together by magical equivalent of duct tape. Like, if you saw the Abram's Trek movies, there's a shot of Kronos' moon where it's shattered, presumably from wars. Like that. Modrons are biomechanical robots building a series of clockwork worlds throughout the universe. Clockwork horrors are a rogue offshoot of modrons. Both are borglike to one degree or another. Slaadi are just weird and have a disturbing breeding requirement. Elementals are creatures native to suns, water worlds, airless worlds and asteroids, and gas giants.

Each planet and other large body has their own Feywild and Shadowfell; some have them perfectly balanced, some have almost all one of one and almost none of the other, and some have some other combination. That percentage dictates how strong the presence of fey and undead are in any given area. Some ships might even have a connection to their homeworld's Feywild or Shadowfell. Actual high-powered fey can travel from one world's Feywild to another; same with certain undead or other powerful umbral beings from the Shadowfell.

Sigil is a (small) planet-sized city, like Coruscant. It has, like, all the spaceports. And factions. Gate-towns are effectively embassy-towns of various species, maybe on moonlets that orbit Sigil.

The way I feel is, some people (hopefully besides myself) might think this is an interesting idea worth having as a setting. But if this were proposed as the actual and official combination of Planescape and Spelljammer, there'd be a riot, and rightfully so.

While I know that Spelljammer needs a lot of work, I think the sparseness of material in the original books and boxes just means that more can be done to make it interesting if it were revamped--not that it needs to be combined with Planescape. Adding ships to the Astral would be a good way to make that individual plane more interesting (even though it has legitimate god-corpses already), but having it as a substitute for Spelljammer is just... no.
 

Urriak Uruk

Debate fuels my Fire
It could be assumed that...except that Chris Perkins and Jeremy Crawford on Dragon Talk over the last five or six years, when discussing Crystal Spheres, have not shown a predilection for dramatically altering the D&D cosmology in such a way.

People have mentioned Van Richten’s Guide as a precedent for turning Spelljammer into a Planejammer setting. But Van Richten’s guide has not altered the established D&D cosmology of the Domains of Dread. In a forum thread a year or two ago, someone claimed that the D&D cosmology behind the Domains of Dread was basically out the window because of (what turned out to be a misreading by that person of) Curse of Strahd. I wrote at the time that eliminating the Domains of Dread or revealing the Dark Lords did not seem consistent with what I was hearing from the designers in Dragon Talk. Van Richten’s Guide has now confirmed that impression with which Dragon Talk left me. The alterations to the Domains of Dread don’t alter the basic premise.

Changing space faring to plane shifting alters the basic premise of Spelljammer. I don’t want to step on anyone’s fun...and plane shifting can always be incorporated into Spelljammer. So, traveling the astral plane with a Spelljammer ship could always be done and will be able to be done in the future. But the designers are fans and, like fans, embrace the Spelljamming lore.

Finally, Crawford has continually claimed that the various D&D worlds are in the same plane, to such an extent that he said that if one has the sigil code, one can use Teleport to teleport from, for example, Krynn to Oerth because they are in the same Prime Material Plane. If the Astral Plane was separating Krynn and Oerth, then that would suggest (to me at least) that they are not on the same plane.

Anything can be changed, of course, but I am with those who think this Planejammer idea is a fan idea with no basis in what the Wizards designers have said over the years. In this case, these fans want the Spelljammer setting changed at the fundamental level and the Wizards designers are upholding the original setting’s explanations.

To be clear, navigating the phlogiston is not really space faring. It looks more like the images below. Plus, space faring is still a thing (as for as I can tell) as one can still navigate Realmspace. It's just once you leave Realmspace, it's not clear if you enter phlogiston, or the Astral.

1623878338992.png
1623878353538.png
 

Planescape and Spelljammer do a lot of overlap, which is why I'm so confused why folks love Planescape and hate Spelljammer (Planescape is so bananas).

And yes, obviously. I just don't get why folks think you can't get that in Spelljammer.
Because Planescape works with established settings, while Spelljammer breaks them.

Planescape is based on portals, which function entirely at the whim of the DM, and are rare outside Sigil. Planar travel is an established part of most settings, at least in the sense of going to the inner and outer planes, and to some degree also to parallel worlds, but that's the domain of high-level magic.

Spelljammer is based on vehicles which, while expensive, don't require high-level magic (and usually need large amounts of low-level crew). Further, in order to work properly, Spelljammer needs a lot of spelljamming – a single spelljamming ship is no fun, you need space to be a bit crowded. But if there are lots of spelljamming ships hanging around in Realmspace or Greyspace, that should have a strong effect on the Forgotten Realms or Greyhawk.

Spelljammer is a cool concept that was hampered by being connected to existing settings and having lots of time and resources spent on making it a way to travel from Greyhawk to Waterdeep, instead of focusing on the wonders of space itself. It would likely work best with scattered planetoids rather than complete planets, because there's little reason to travel from one self-sufficient place to another. Astromundi Cluster had the right idea, if not necessarily the best execution.
 

Urriak Uruk

Debate fuels my Fire
I think to clarify my thoughts (and my own "head canon"), here's my explanation for how I imagine the multiverse would fit together, if we wanted every setting book to all be part of the same multiverse.

1. The Astral Plane is the space between all the various planes. It is not "space itself," but whenever there is an absence of anything part of another plane, it is filled by the Astral.

2. Space still exists, but it is contained within the firmament (we can call this a Crystal Sphere, they're essentially the same) of each world on the Material Plane. So the space between Faerun and the planets in it's sphere is just that; space (it is called Wildspace in old lore, but is the same to real-life space).

3. There is no phlogiston. Instead, each world within the Prime Material floats in its crystal sphere within the Astral Plane. The worlds of the Prime Material however form clusters around each other, much like the various stars cluster to form galaxies in the real world. Zoom out enough (like looking at it from an Outer Plane), and the Prime Material is clustered as one, and looks like one cohesive cluster. Zoom in closer and one can see the clusters within the cluster itself.

One such cluster, below. The sphere called Clusterspace is coincidental.
1623879322795.png


4. Spelljammer can traverse both Wildspace and the Astral Plane. However, while Wildspace is fairly safe to traverse with largely empty areas to pass through, the Astral Plane is not homogenous. There are the corpses of dead gods, entire civilizations, predators like Astral Dreadnoughts, and pockets of energy too dangerous to navigate.

5. There are safe routes through the Astral Plane, called flows, or "rainbow roads," that are sometimes permanent, other-times temporary. The permanent routes are used by Spelljammer ships to navigate and trade from one world to the next. Most clusters have a network of permanent flow routes that connect their spheres. These routes are also preyed upon by raiders like the Githyanki or Neogi, and sometimes are used by armadas to invade other worlds (the scro, Elven Armada, and Vodoni Empire). Some worlds previously inaccessible become discoverable when a portion of the Astral calms, and new explorers venture forth to seek new worlds.

6. Some worlds are completely cut off, with no accessible flow routes to access. Some worlds, like Eberron, have a crystal sphere so dense that no Spelljammer can access it. Others, like Athas, are not part of any cluster, and float too far from any other world for any merchant to consider returning to safely. And still others, like Ravnica, Theros, and Strixhaven, are surrounded by storms in the Astral Plane, so dense and turbulent, one would need to be a godlike being to even consider trying to navigate such zones. The most turbulent of areas of the Astral, so dangerous no Spelljammer captain would consider navigating, are called the Blind Eternities.

7. Exceptionally talented and gifted individuals called Planeswalkers shift through the Astral as if it is but a door from world to world. Planeswalkers have unlimited access to any world on the Prime Material Plane, and can planeswalk to any world far faster than any ship (or any other being). No world, no matter how cut off within the Astral Plane, is out of their reach.
 

I think to clarify my thoughts (and my own "head canon"), here's my explanation for how I imagine the multiverse would fit together, if we wanted every setting book to all be part of the same multiverse.

1. The Astral Plane is the space between all the various planes. It is not "space itself," but whenever there is an absence of anything part of another plane, it is filled by the Astral.

2. Space still exists, but it is contained within the firmament (we can call this a Crystal Sphere, they're essentially the same) of each world on the Material Plane. So the space between Faerun and the planets in it's sphere is just that; space (it is called Wildspace in old lore, but is the same to real-life space).

3. There is no phlogiston. Instead, each world within the Prime Material floats in its crystal sphere within the Astral Plane. The worlds of the Prime Material however form clusters around each other, much like the various stars cluster to form galaxies in the real world. Zoom out enough (like looking at it from an Outer Plane), and the Prime Material is clustered as one, and looks like one cohesive cluster. Zoom in closer and one can see the clusters within the cluster itself.

One such cluster, below. The sphere called Clusterspace is coincidental.
View attachment 138395

4. Spelljammer can traverse both Wildspace and the Astral Plane. However, while Wildspace is fairly safe to traverse with largely empty areas to pass through, the Astral Plane is not homogenous. There are the corpses of dead gods, entire civilizations, predators like Astral Dreadnoughts, and pockets of energy too dangerous to navigate.

5. There are safe routes through the Astral Plane, called flows, or "rainbow roads," that are sometimes permanent, other-times temporary. The permanent routes are used by Spelljammer ships to navigate and trade from one world to the next. Most clusters have a network of permanent flow routes that connect their spheres. These routes are also preyed upon by raiders like the Githyanki or Neogi, and sometimes are used by armadas to invade other worlds (the scro, Elven Armada, and Vodoni Empire). Some worlds previously inaccessible become discoverable when a portion of the Astral calms, and new explorers venture forth to seek new worlds.

6. Some worlds are completely cut off, with no accessible flow routes to access. Some worlds, like Eberron, have a crystal sphere so dense that no Spelljammer can access it. Others, like Athas, are not part of any cluster, and float too far from any other world for any merchant to consider returning to safely. And still others, like Ravnica, Theros, and Strixhaven, are surrounded by storms in the Astral Plane, so dense and turbulent, one would need to be a godlike being to even consider trying to navigate such zones. The most turbulent of areas of the Astral, so dangerous no Spelljammer captain would consider navigating, are called the Blind Eternities.

7. Exceptionally talented and gifted individuals called Planeswalkers shift through the Astral as if it is but a door from world to world. Planeswalkers have unlimited access to any world on the Prime Material Plane, and can planeswalk to any world far faster than any ship (or any other being). No world, no matter how cut off within the Astral Plane, is out of their reach.

So basically merge the Astral Plane and Blind Eternities, making the BE the nasty region of the AE. I like it, needs polish but the idea has potential.
 

Steampunkette

Shaper of Worlds
But to what purpose? By squeezing Spelljammer material into one book with Planescape, you just water down two distinct flavors. There is no gain to be had.
Because uniting the two would fit into the current cosmology in an interesting way, turn interplanetary travel and interplanar travel into a journey rather than a jaunt, and create a massive opportunity to expand both settings... Which otherwise tend to be really -really- narrow in their actual scope because they both rely on other settings and world design to provide the bulk of the places to "Go".

You know, compared to, say, Forgotten Realms or Ravenloft or Eberron.

The "LoLRandom" humor that made Spelljammer funny back in the 90s doesn't quite fly today, where the lolrandom has a wholly different logic that not a single corporation can entirely grasp. Which is why you can spot a Corporate Meme from a mile away. Asking modern WotC to update that humor for the modern community? Not really an option. Especially since it'll be just as inscrutably random in 15 years.

But the thing that -really- made Spelljammer stand out? The Visuals. The Art. The style. The grandiose imagery of fantasy starships traversing Wildspace... THAT is something WotC -could- reasonably do.

Combine that with Planescape and you'll have a fulsome way to do a whole lot more than either one really has on it's own.
 

Steampunkette

Shaper of Worlds
Lemme hit you with an example meme:

tumblr_inline_oejzt7CNwm1r4kmbx_500.png

There are 7 Memes in this singular meme image.

The political compass is often used as a meme.
Man door hand hook car door is a meme based off a terrible spoof of a traditional horror story/urban legend.
YMCA with Wrong Lyrics is a meme.
Take the Breadsticks and Run is a meme based on a girl stuffing breadsticks in her purse at Olive Garden when her date was a jerk.
The whole thing is presented in the 4 panel comic arrangement, which is it's own meme.
GUN as a random addition to the end of a sentence is a form of shock humor.
And the whole thing is laid out so the words fill in the space occupied by characters in the CTRL+ALT+DEL comic "Loss" which is a meme because of how utterly awful it was presented and taken by the comic's fanbase and tangential fanbases.
And ARGUABLY combining memes to create a Supermeme is it's OWN meme, bringing us to 8.

Can you imagine explaining this to your Boss to try and explain -why- it is funny?

Now try it with this one:

tumblr_png9hjTivd1u5ur8e_540.png


All the same memes, plus Nickleback, the Distracted Boyfriend Meme, Is this a Pigeon Meme, Grunkle Stan, Galaxy Brain, and Marie Kondo.

Allow me to assure you, Tumblr is still not finished with this Memeception. And now that I've said that, a version of the Meme with Leonardo Dicaprio saying "We've gotta go deeper" now exists.

WotC would look at this in horror... and Spelljammer would become a straight laced and serious version of what it once was.

In 100 years, Memes from this era will be inscrutable hieroglyphics... And I sit in stark horror of what memes are to come.
 

Faolyn

Hero
WotC would look at this in horror... and Spelljammer would become a straight laced and serious version of what it once was.
Or it could be strange in a very different way. Ravenloft showed that they could make updates and changes but still kept the horror flavor. An updated spelljammer could keep the more humorous aspects while removing the 90s Lolrandomness. Heck, look at the giff from Mordenkainen's. A good balance between a more modern and serious take on them and keeping their original "Oh, I say, let's jolly well go blow something to smithereens, what?" parody nature.
 

overgeeked

B/X Known World
Lemme hit you with an example meme:

tumblr_inline_oejzt7CNwm1r4kmbx_500.png

There are 7 Memes in this singular meme image.

The political compass is often used as a meme.
Man door hand hook car door is a meme based off a terrible spoof of a traditional horror story/urban legend.
YMCA with Wrong Lyrics is a meme.
Take the Breadsticks and Run is a meme based on a girl stuffing breadsticks in her purse at Olive Garden when her date was a jerk.
The whole thing is presented in the 4 panel comic arrangement, which is it's own meme.
GUN as a random addition to the end of a sentence is a form of shock humor.
And the whole thing is laid out so the words fill in the space occupied by characters in the CTRL+ALT+DEL comic "Loss" which is a meme because of how utterly awful it was presented and taken by the comic's fanbase and tangential fanbases.
And ARGUABLY combining memes to create a Supermeme is it's OWN meme, bringing us to 8.

Can you imagine explaining this to your Boss to try and explain -why- it is funny?

Now try it with this one:

tumblr_png9hjTivd1u5ur8e_540.png


All the same memes, plus Nickleback, the Distracted Boyfriend Meme, Is this a Pigeon Meme, Grunkle Stan, Galaxy Brain, and Marie Kondo.

Allow me to assure you, Tumblr is still not finished with this Memeception. And now that I've said that, a version of the Meme with Leonardo Dicaprio saying "We've gotta go deeper" now exists.

WotC would look at this in horror... and Spelljammer would become a straight laced and serious version of what it once was.

In 100 years, Memes from this era will be inscrutable hieroglyphics... And I sit in stark horror of what memes are to come.
1. Skip ahead to the good bits, like r/surrealmemes.

2. Spelljammer isn't a meme. You're comparing apples and oranges.
 

Too me part of the charm of Planescape is that it has whole small scale expeditionary aesthetic. You open a door to some place by thinking about the smell of rain on a hot day and walk through to Arcadia, where you camp out and have a picnic on the way to talk to some deity.

Travelling the planes with whole ships just loses something for me.
 
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Parmandur

Book-Friend
Because uniting the two would fit into the current cosmology in an interesting way, turn interplanetary travel and interplanar travel into a journey rather than a jaunt, and create a massive opportunity to expand both settings... Which otherwise tend to be really -really- narrow in their actual scope because they both rely on other settings and world design to provide the bulk of the places to "Go".

You know, compared to, say, Forgotten Realms or Ravenloft or Eberron.

The "LoLRandom" humor that made Spelljammer funny back in the 90s doesn't quite fly today, where the lolrandom has a wholly different logic that not a single corporation can entirely grasp. Which is why you can spot a Corporate Meme from a mile away. Asking modern WotC to update that humor for the modern community? Not really an option. Especially since it'll be just as inscrutably random in 15 years.

But the thing that -really- made Spelljammer stand out? The Visuals. The Art. The style. The grandiose imagery of fantasy starships traversing Wildspace... THAT is something WotC -could- reasonably do.

Combine that with Planescape and you'll have a fulsome way to do a whole lot more than either one really has on it's own.
I mean, if Chris Pwrkinsnis involves, I fully believe that WotC can achieve the right wacky tone for Spelljammer, as has much of the Spelljammer bits and bobs that have made it into 5E so far.

But realistically, you talking about taking two radically differ genres and squishing them together into one 256 page book. That doesn't serve either 70's prog rock/Jack Kirby fantasy in space OR 90's weird fantasy any justice. Neither Planescape nor Spelljammer are best as metasetting connections, but as distinct places.to tryntwo very different genres. It doesn't make sense as a single book combo.
 

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