WotC Blogs II

[Simia Saturnalia]

I find it tiresome to hear game developers bashing on AD&D.

The first comment in this thread which stated that monsters in the old monster manual were basically slapped together to see if they were fun and usually were not is completely wrong. (snip)

This was all real interesting (if self-congratulatory), but I believe you've misunderstood. From my reading of the quote, it seems clear to me he's talking about homebrewing monsters for AD&D 1st and 2nd edition.

 

[WayneLigon]

Yay, finally something about Eberron
http://forums.gleemax.com/showpost.php?p=13890192&postcount=162

We are planning to advance the timeline 2 years.

I don't think that timeline advancement will change the tone of the world. The Treaty of Thronehold will be two years more distant in the past, but the shadow of the Last War will loom just as large over the political landscape—quite possibly more so

Also, we're not going to expect you to buy a whole new line of Eberron products to catch up with the new timeline. ... (at least not any time in a future I can foresee from here).

[Tieflings are] not suddenly going to overrun the world, form a new dragonmarked house, or have a nation of their own.

...we also love Keith, and we're not going to shut him out of the planning for 4E Eberron or blindly overrule his opinions and desires.

 

[GreatLemur]

Cuz everyone knows that evil is what's in, yo. :\ Warlocks and Tieflings are the cool people that get to play with all the l33t evil powers that the Dark Lords pass out for free, like candy, to show people how awesome the dark side is. You're not a real hero unless your emo.

I am seriously wondering what the hell emo means to people, these days. To me, it's the obnoxious, my girlfriend-left-me-and-I'm-a-clinical-depressive wuss-rock stuff that would find its way onto the punk compilation CDs I used to buy, forcing me to hit fast forward every few songs. It ain't "dark and brooding"; it's skinny and whining.

But, yeah, tieflings without aasimars seems like a dumb idea to me, too.

Still, all the predictions about tieflings not being "heroic" sound incredibly weird to me. I don't think they're going to come with an alignment restriction, you know? And if--as many folks are bemoaning--their inclusion as a PC race suggests that they're actually relatively common in the default setting, where's the sense in pigeonholing them as angsty outcasts? I know I never played half-orcs that way, certainly. The whole "one of my ancestors was evil so I'm inherently tainted" bit has always been deeply stupid.

 

[Lonely Tylenol]

I am seriously wondering what the hell emo means to people, these days. To me, it's the obnoxious, my girlfriend-left-me-and-I'm-a-clinical-depressive wuss-rock stuff that would find its way onto the punk compilation CDs I used to buy, forcing me to hit fast forward every few songs. It ain't "dark and brooding"; it's skinny and whining.

But, yeah, tieflings without aasimars seems like a dumb idea to me, too.

Still, all the predictions about tieflings not being "heroic" sound incredibly weird to me. I don't think they're going to come with an alignment restriction, you know? And if--as many folks are bemoaning--their inclusion as a PC race suggests that they're actually relatively common in the default setting, where's the sense in pigeonholing them as angsty outcasts? I know I never played half-orcs that way, certainly. The whole "one of my ancestors was evil so I'm inherently tainted" bit has always been deeply stupid.

Yes, emo = "boo hoo", but there is a connection. I blame White Wolf. They set up the drama in the World of Darkness, and particularly Vampire: The Masquerade to generate character concepts that can be summarized in the following sentence:

"I am a misunderstood good guy trapped in the body of a villain, and sometimes I do bad things, but I feel awful about it afterwards (woe is me)."

Add in some Driz'zt, a dash of Angel, about ten years of goth culture (the bits of it that Jhonen Vasquez parodied, anyway), and you've got a recipe for weepy leather-clad demonspawn: Emo tieflings.

 

[Rechan]

"I am a misunderstood good guy trapped in the body of a villain, and sometimes I do bad things, but I feel awful about it afterwards (woe is me).".

You know, I read that and you know what it made me think of?

The first sentence makes me think of The Punisher. The second makes me think of Highlander.

In other words, there are way to play the "I'm a monster but I'm fighting for good" or "I do bad things but I'm not happy about it" and do it well. Hell, I would expect "I do bad things but I don't like it" to come from Good characters who realize that their actions very well could hurt innocents.

 

[Plane Sailing]

But, yeah, tieflings without aasimars seems like a dumb idea to me, too.

Although I could get right behind Eladrin being available as a good 'equivalent' to the Tieflings.

'cos Eladrin is a cooler name that is less likely to end up sounding like a donkey, if you know what I mean.

 

[RPG_Tweaker]

... where's the sense in pigeonholing them as angsty outcasts? I know I never played half-orcs that way, certainly. The whole "one of my ancestors was evil so I'm inherently tainted" bit has always been deeply stupid.

Actually, in anything but a super-egalitarian society (far surpassing even our fairly enlightened world), they are more than likely to be killed at birth.

As far as being raised amongst humans, I have a hard enough time believing that even a cambrion would survive, let alone it getting a chance to have a brood of its own.

Almost every campaign setting out there works under the assumption that the general populace lives in an undereducated, pre-industrial society, where demons and devils are KNOWN to be evil... thus feared... thus hated.

Who would nurture a demon-spawn to adulthood? or better yet WILLINGLY have sex with a demon in the first place?

Any breeding would be through black magic pacts, rape, or succubi covertly gathering seed, but I seriously doubt any typical human/elf/dwarf/halfling society would welcome demons/devils or anything spawned by them with anything but hostility and violence.


Even in a world where my next-door neighbor is an elf and the new addition to the house was built by a dwarf, I'm gonna become an instant pariah bringing baby Neeshka to the towne faire.

 

[Rechan]

Almost every campaign setting out there works under the assumption that the general populace lives in an undereducated, pre-industrial society, where demons and devils are KNOWN to be evil... thus feared... thus hated.

Who would nurture a demon-spawn to adulthood? or better yet WILLINGLY have sex with a demon in the first place?

Any breeding would be through black magic pacts, rape, or succubi covertly gathering seed, but I seriously doubt any typical human/elf/dwarf/halfling society would welcome demons/devils or anything spawned by them with anything but hostility and violence.

Cults. Evil societies. People living in the wilderness. Hell, Forgotten Realms has a whole area that has a lot of Elf or Orc versions of Tieflings, because demons in the area overtook a castle and the surrounding countryside and had specific breeding programs.

More reasonably, I'd say the Warlock or something appropriate. "My dad made a pact with a demon and it infused his body with the demon's powers. And that power carried over in his bloodline to me."

As for "bringing baby Neeshka to the towne faire", how about "exercising the Disguise skill'? Or even more likely, the Tiefling's fiendish appearance doesn't surface until it hits puberty.

The creator of Eberron suggested some Setting-specific origins for Tieflings; they're not from breeding with Fiends, but from births that occur when a plane is lined up with the stars and the Plane itself is touching the immediate area. And the tief's personality corresponds with the Plane that they are tied to - a Tief born when the Plane of Fire is in line with the site of his birth is passionate, chaotic and often fire obsessed. Tieflings could also come from births that occur in proximity to sites over-rich with dark magic (the Underdark, Mournland, etc).

I mean really, if you're going to go that far, how could Half-orcs be allowed to survive, since they're always the product of rape? Or wizards, because we're operating on an uneducated, pre-industrial society? If anything, necromancers would be mobbed on sight.

 

[Jhaelen]

Although I could get right behind Eladrin being available as a good 'equivalent' to the Tieflings.

'cos Eladrin is a cooler name that is less likely to end up sounding like a donkey, if you know what I mean.

Well, it doesn't take much to turn eladrin into something awful, either:
Eladrin, Elatrin, Elatrine, E-Latrine, ...

 

[RPG_Tweaker]

Cults. Evil societies. People living in the wilderness. Hell, Forgotten Realms has a whole area that has a lot of Elf or Orc versions of Tieflings, because demons in the area overtook a castle and the surrounding countryside and had specific breeding programs.

More reasonably, I'd say the Warlock or something appropriate. "My dad made a pact with a demon and it infused his body with the demon's powers. And that power carried over in his bloodline to me."

As for "bringing baby Neeshka to the towne faire", how about "exercising the Disguise skill'? Or even more likely, the Tiefling's fiendish appearance doesn't surface until it hits puberty.

The creator of Eberron suggested some Setting-specific origins for Tieflings; they're not from breeding with Fiends, but from births that occur when a plane is lined up with the stars and the Plane itself is touching the immediate area. And the tief's personality corresponds with the Plane that they are tied to - a Tief born when the Plane of Fire is in line with the site of his birth is passionate, chaotic and often fire obsessed. Tieflings could also come from births that occur in proximity to sites over-rich with dark magic (the Underdark, Mournland, etc).

I mean really, if you're going to go that far, how could Half-orcs be allowed to survive, since they're always the product of rape? Or wizards, because we're operating on an uneducated, pre-industrial society? If anything, necromancers would be mobbed on sight.

These are all pretty good ways to explain their possible existence for many campaigns, but unless you're using the evil society thing, it seems they'd still be pretty rare... especially to supplant a core race in the PHB1.

I guess sometimes placating popularity trumps tradition or my view of common sense. :\