WotC: Re-issue older editions.

[shadzar]

A quick history of the digital printing landscape - Adobe wasn't always the king. A program called Quark used to reign supreme, but the software was counter-intuitive and a pain to use. Adobe came along and made InDesign, which is better in every aspect. The transition from Quark to PDF happened between 2000 & 2005. It's probably a good bet that WotC converted fairly early to PDF as their standard for digital archives. TSR...who knows. There are a lot of file formats that are not used and supported anymore, with the standardization that has happened and various software businesses that have died.

And who knows whether or not the TSR stuff was saved in good quality scans or not. Sometimes things happen and the only thing on file are the poor quality scans that were put on the net. We don't know. If it was, then transitioning it to POV is cheap. If it wasn't saved in a high quality scan (300 ppi+), then you have to pay someone to scan it. If the quality of the original scan is crap, you either have to rescan it or pay a lot of money to have someone clean up the scans (even then, some things are not salvagable). If the hard copies are of a good enough quality to scan it in without paying someone to go through and clean them up by removing pencil marks, stains, etc. - then it may be cost effective to POV these products.

That is a lot of "ifs."

OK seriously, just stop talking. You need to go look at some of the PDFs that were legally bought and see what quality they are. You are still oging on about crap under TSR era, when the TSR line was scanned by WotC and turned into PDF. PDF format as exists has MANY ways to clean those scans using simple macros for the worse ones, and AGAIN, the main core books for ANY edition were scanned and OCR'd meaning the text is black on white.

So leave Quark to his bar on DS9, and find out about what you are talking about. You keep harking back to TSR and the early days, well some were done on manual and electric typewriters, and even Chainmail from 1973 existed from RPGNow as a PDF. (I think, would have to check the wayback machine to find out.)

WotC already did that work that you are talking about over a decade ago.

So you need to stop preaching your history of publishing lesson that matters none what-so-ever, and get back to the topic at hand, or at least PLEASE talk about what people are talking about.

If you disagree that the files exist in a form usable today that could be used for POD, then so be it. You are one of very few. The fact is the PDF files exist, they were made by WotC and were being sold, and the core books, that would be required to play the game, were OCR'd.

What more do you want?

Here is a 5 year old thread on ENWorld about the quality of the PDFs WotC made. http://www.enworld.org/forum/general-rpg-discussion/146763-rpgnow-pdf-quality-old-dnd-modules.html

 

[Ourph]

History is littered with people who had all the information in the world and then made a decision that was obviously wrong to everyone around them.

The fact that people with ALL the information can still make bad decisions does not, in any way, indicate that people with very limited information are able to make BETTER decisions. In fact, it suggests the exact opposite.

 

[Aus_Snow]

The fact that people with ALL the information can still make bad decisions does not, in any way, indicate that people with very limited information are able to make BETTER decisions. In fact, it suggests the exact opposite.

That's one way of looking at it.

Alternatively, it simply means that some people are very good at making very bad decisions. Or, if you prefer, not very good at all at making better ones.

Something like that. it's a knack (of sorts), either way.

And to suggest that speculators can never be correct, even though they're not part of a given company that happens to be heading down the drain... well. That's a bit silly, suffice it to say.

 

[Coldwyn]

Thought it would be a nice touch to have some of that old stuff back in print in one form or another and I´d love to get my hands on stuff I missed back then.

But enthusiasm aside, I don´t think it´s as easy as some of you guys think.
Simply scanning old books without reworking them isn´t a good idea when you consider that there´re errata out there, that the new pdfs should be compatible with all sorts of reading devices (like iPad, Kindle) and be preplanned to be compatible with emerging technologies. Add to this that the material should be integrated in DDI and indexed.

Here we´re back at opportunity costs: If I move the whole bunch of stuff to digital, I´d only offer it via DDI. Why the f*** should I throw potential money at a PoD provider when I can chain customers to my subscription service? I´s not like they (the customers) can´t use a PoD service w/o me holding their hand.

Than there´re the slight problems of brand dilution and keeping my stuff up to date, because there will be customers that have trouble differentiatiting between the editions I now offer and the support stuff should be able to answer questions, and so on.
Can you imagine some soccer mom calling up the support line, her kiddies having trouble with the game and she´ll be asked which edition they own?

 

[francisca]

I'd be interested in some print-on-demand versions of older product, but it have to be of higher quality than the PDFs they used to sell.

Now, it isn't hard to do. I cut apart an old AD&D PHB, scanned it, and put it PDF format over the span of a couple evenings, in my spare time. It prints so much better than the PDF I bought from RPGNow, it isn't even funny. I'm guessing things like the World of GH Maps might be more problematic (the map being an issue both for getting a good scan, and cost t produce on-demand.)

(and no, you can't have a copy, so don't ask me.)

However, an actual re-release of the AD&D line, in dead-tree format? Despite the popularity of retroclones, I just don't see it being a money maker. I personally might be interested in seeing that sort of stuff on the shelf, but I can't see it being a good business decision, despite the fact that AD&D 1e is my game of choice, and I haven't been a customer of D&D product since 2004.

 

[Ourph]

And to suggest that speculators can never be correct, even though they're not part of a given company that happens to be heading down the drain... well. That's a bit silly, suffice it to say.

Nice strawman. I guess it's a good thing that's not what I said.

 

[Glade Riven]

OK seriously, just stop talking.

Um...no.

You need to go look at some of the PDFs that were legally bought and see what quality they are.

Can't. I didn't buy any, and I don't feel like pirating something that may or may not have been from a legitimate purchase.

You are still oging on about crap under TSR era, when the TSR line was scanned by WotC and turned into PDF. PDF format as exists has MANY ways to clean those scans using simple macros for the worse ones, and AGAIN, the main core books for ANY edition were scanned and OCR'd meaning the text is black on white.

I was asked to explain myself, where I got my numbers, and what my expertise was. I have already admitted that if every item is already digitized in a quality manner it would greatly reduce the costs.

So leave Quark...<snip>

Not worth going in to...

If you disagree that the files exist in a form usable today that could be used for POD, then so be it. You are one of very few. The fact is the PDF files exist, they were made by WotC and were being sold, and the core books, that would be required to play the game, were OCR'd.

Well, I question it, which apparently has annoyed you. I have listed why I question it, which apparently has only served to further annoy you. And since I'm responding to your passionate post that is pulling this thread away from the central topic, it'll probably annoy you further. Such is not an intent of mine, but I am also not going to go out of my way to avoid it. I honestly doubt that I could, at this point.

What more do you want?

I would prefer that I not be talked down to, but it is entirely possible I am misreading the intent of the posts. Sometimes that happens in a text based communication model. So if you are willing to let things go at this point, we can agree to disagree and both get back on to the main topic at hand. I am not interested in seeing the situation escalate.

 

[shadzar]

You need to go look at some of the PDFs that were legally bought and see what quality they are.

Can't. I didn't buy any, and I don't feel like pirating something that may or may not have been from a legitimate purchase.

What is your native language so I can translate my post that you quoted so you can correctly read and understand it?

If your native language is English, then this is where the discussion ends, because you have no interest in discussing the same thing as you have repeatedly changed what was in quoted posts to mean something else you want, or go off into left field on tangents, or just don't read them.

Your response here has very little to do with what I suggested you do. AS many of your other pasts have been largely irrelevant as you are arguing about something totally different than what I was.

If we are going to argue two sides of something, at least let me know what it is and which side I am taking, rather than you changing the focus of the subject to other things all the time.

Until now it has been like this...

Me: They can use the PDF scans they had to sale to make older material available for POD.
You: No they have to scan it and pay someone to do all that work and Quark doesnt exist now.

Me:

 

[Aus_Snow]

Nice strawman. I guess it's a good thing that's not what I said.

I LOL'd.

 

[Piratecat]

Shadzar has been booted from the thread for being rude. Thank you to everyone who has kept their temper -- we appreciate you discussing a disagreement, instead of being insulting about it. Very cool.