WotC Replies: Statements by WotC employees regarding Dragon/Dungeon going online

Waylander the Slayer said:
Lets See:
This is quite simple - who do I expect better adventures, design and content from? ;)

Team 1:

Erik Mona
Wulfgang Baur
James Jacobs
Tito Lati
Rich Pett
Nicolas Logue
Stephen Greer
Greg Vaughan

Team 2:
Chris Tomasson
Mathew Sernet
James Wyatt
Jesse Decker
Chris Perkins
Kim Mohan
Bill Savachek

I''ll go with Team 1 for the win. So will WoTC, since many of their modules are written by freelancers who are part of the Paizo stable.
 

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Wrathamon said:
I am fine will cool online stuff... but I wont BOTH. I dont want one popular gaming staple to be replaced with something that frankly isnt as valuable to me.

I hear you. This topic was brought up in another thread; the consensus seems to be to provide full access to discrete content like PDFs, even after the subscription expires. You can then burn that content to disc, print it, stick it on a USB jump drive and carry it around, whatever.

It'd be a mistake, I think, to simply rent/license such content.

Compare to the other (assumed) parts of the DI, like online tools and such. That stuff makes total sense for a traditional subscription model, where you lose access once you stop paying your subscription.

But yeah, you should be able to keep whatever you *buy*. I imagine they'll allow online real-time searching through old archives as part of a subscription, and then you can choose to *buy* and download/own a copy of that content for a small additional fee.

eCommerce is interesting because credit card processing is a fixed cost. So even if you want to sell individual articles for, say, 10 cents apiece you can't because Visa charges the vendor a fixed amount (up to $1.50) per transaction. So the customer would pay you a dime and after it's all said and done you're down a buck forty.

MS gets around the issue with Xbox Live points. It's like company scrip; the customer pays 10 real bucks (a palatable amount, given Visa's fees) and MS gives you X thousand "points". Each product costs a couple hundred points--effectively two or three dollars, but since Visa isn't involved the low purchase price is doable. So your single $10 transaction allows five "purchases" at 200 points each, at a cost to MS of only $1.50, netting $8.50. Compare to five transactions at $2.00 each, at a cost to MS of $7.50, netting $3.50.

Smart of them!

But that's a pretty big tangent.

-z
 

Waylander the Slayer said:
The answer is self evident and further analysis will lead to even more self evident answers. ;)

i guess you didnt note the sarcasm... many of them Have worked and are still working for wotc in some capactity as freelancers for example
 

Waylander the Slayer said:
Lets See:
This is quite simple - who do I expect better adventures, design and content from? ;)

Team 1:

Erik Mona
Wulfgang Baur
James Jacobs
Tito Lati
Rich Pett
Nicolas Logue
Stephen Greer
Greg Vaughan

Team 2:
Chris Tomasson
Mathew Sernet
James Wyatt
Jesse Decker
Chris Perkins
Kim Mohan
Bill Savachek


That's not as easy a choice as it looks at first blush, but yeah, Team 1 gets my vote, as well.
 


Zaruthustran said:
I hear you. This topic was brought up in another thread; the consensus seems to be to provide full access to discrete content like PDFs, even after the subscription expires. You can then burn that content to disc, print it, stick it on a USB jump drive and carry it around, whatever.

It'd be a mistake, I think, to simply rent/license such content.

Compare to the other (assumed) parts of the DI, like online tools and such. That stuff makes total sense for a traditional subscription model, where you lose access once you stop paying your subscription.

But yeah, you should be able to keep whatever you *buy*. I imagine they'll allow online real-time searching through old archives as part of a subscription, and then you can choose to *buy* and download/own a copy of that content for a small additional fee.

eCommerce is interesting because credit card processing is a fixed cost. So even if you want to sell individual articles for, say, 10 cents apiece you can't because Visa charges the vendor a fixed amount (up to $1.50) per transaction. So the customer would pay you a dime and after it's all said and done you're down a buck forty.

MS gets around the issue with Xbox Live points. It's like company scrip; the customer pays 10 real bucks (a palatable amount, given Visa's fees) and MS gives you X thousand "points". Each product costs a couple hundred points--effectively two or three dollars, but since Visa isn't involved the low purchase price is doable. So your single $10 transaction allows five "purchases" at 200 points each, at a cost to MS of only $1.50, netting $8.50. Compare to five transactions at $2.00 each, at a cost to MS of $7.50, netting $3.50.

Smart of them!

But that's a pretty big tangent.

-z

Well we are at somewhat of an agreement.

I am fine with the other E stuff being a service but if I buy an e-zine I would like to own it... but it still sucks not having a hard copy that is printed and bound nice.

And, I can see them doing that to make more money. Recapping the "best of the internet" in a 300 page hardbound that people all oogle over... when in reality you alrady paid for it.

sorta like the shackled city and dragon compendium to be honest... at least SC had new content.
 

Simplicity said:
Sorry, but that's not an fair summation at all. Dragon and Dungeon are finished. They will not be moving to an online format. The name will not be used, and the content will not be the same. A magazine that I've read off and on since the 80s (most of my life) is finishing. Why shouldn't that hold serious emotional significance for me? People whine when their Battlestar episodes suck. That shows been around for what, 3 years? Ha!

Trial of Champions? No more.
Demonomicon? Nope.
Ecology of Monsters? Uh-uh.
Nodwick? Nope.
Dork Tower? Gone.

These magazines had a big impact on the hobby.

Wizards will be releasing online material which is not written or edited by current Dragon/Dungeon staff. Some would say that the current Wizards material doesn't hold a candle to what Paizo's been doing lately.

So, I'm not seeing this as a positive change. I don't think that makes me a narcissist. I think it makes me a realist.

As someone else said, wanna bet? Why would the DI axe these articles? What reason is there to assume that none of these will appear in the digital form of the articles? Other, of course, than Chicken Little screaming?

Waylander the Slayer said:
Lets See:
This is quite simple - who do I expect better adventures, design and content from? ;)

Team 1:

Erik Mona
Wulfgang Baur
James Jacobs
Tito Lati
Rich Pett
Nicolas Logue
Stephen Greer
Greg Vaughan

Team 2:
Chris Tomasson
Mathew Sernet
James Wyatt
Jesse Decker
Chris Perkins
Kim Mohan
Bill Savachek

Hrm, some of those names on team 2 were at the helm of Dragon during the "Golden Age". I'm not sure that saying that they have no idea what makes a good Dragon is true.

And, as far as misrepresenting someone's quote, well, even the term tend is meant to mean the majority, which is just projecting personal experiences without any facts to back it up. Feel free to do so. :)
 

I think the thing that bothers me the most is I can't quite undersatnd why WotC would bother to "unlicense" Dragon and Dungeon from Paizo *unless* Dragon and Dungeon were to be in direct competition with what WotC was planning to do. Now, for that to be the case, a couple things would seem to have to be true.

A) The same people that read Dragon and Dungeon would have to be the people WotC was trying to court.

B) The value of Dragon and/or Dungeon would have to be better than or equivalent to the value of whatever it is WotC has planned.

A seems to fly in the face of the common notion, that the people who subscribe to and read Drangon and Dungeon are the same people that would subscribe to an electronic magazine. B suggests that whatever the cost WotC plans to ask, it is going to be more -- at least from a value perspective -- than what Paizo asks.

So, I am going to hazard a guess and suggest that the "online content" thing is only half the story -- largely due to "A". I think, in reality, Dragon and Dungeon probably get sold or licensed as a package deal, and the real issue is that Dunegon outperforms WotC's own adventures for much less. But in order to clear Dungeon from competing with WotC's new adventure push -- and I'll get to the reasons in a second -- they also had to get rid of Dragon. The "online content" isn't, I don't think, the reason Dragon got axed -- it is the damage control. that is, the electronic initiative is going to be more along the lines of databases and record keeping and virtual tabletop. But WotC can't leave people in the lurch, so they are, temporarily at least, going to step up the value and quality of the content already provided on the WotC site as a salve to help lessen the sting of the Dragon loss.

Now, as to the issue with Dungeon and WotC's adventures: the only thing that makes any real sense, to my mind, is that 4E is actually a good ways away -- probably in order to test out the use of the digital initiative and determine exactly how "digital" 4E needs to be to compete. I was talking to the owner of my FLGS today and he said that gaming, even D&D was down by lots, but Dragon and Dungeon were still selling well. We got to talking, and even the D&D minis aren't selling well. Of course, this is anecdotal to one store, but assuming the store isn't unique and the trend, if not the exact numbers, is common in the industry, then it is obvious that WotC would be looking at ways to improve their sales. I think they know that they won't catch lightning in a bottle a second time -- 4E will not reinvigorate the game the way 3E did. therefore, they need to find new ways to market the game, and new people to market it to. To do that, they need to look at technology.

How's all this relate to Dungeon magazine? Well, one thing that "old" D&D had was the shared experience of classic and iconic modules. but it isn't just D&D that has this. it is also MMORPGs, especially WoW. I am not a WoW fan myself, and only played casually for a year or so, but I can tell you that when you hear WoW folks start talking about the raids they've done, you might as well be listening to grognards talking about going into the Keep on the Borderlands. it is amazing, even enlightening, and lamost makes you want to subscribe to WoW just to get a small piece of the same bliss that those pasty guys are geekgasming over. Same with D&D. but with D&D, the experience is much more protracted, and it is a hell of a lot more work. Especially when it comes to adventures, given the complexities and weight of the 3rd edition rules (the same complexity and weight that is a draw for the player base).

Now, bear with me, I think i am finally coming to my point.

If on the one hand you have a solid library of iconic modules -- including encounter designs and stat blocks built specifically for taking the labor out of DMing said adventures -- and on the other hand you have a level of electronic support and immediacy on par with an MMO, or at least a CCG, where those things meet is where D&D successfully traverses into the 21st century.

Imagine, if you will, a group of gamers sitting down at the FLGS in 2009 or 2010 to play Return of the Red Hand of Doom or some such. Now, there's four of them, and they've all played through portions -- i.e. levels -- of the adventure, but never together and never at this FLGS. But that's okay. they hit the WotC website, load up their current PCs and start playing, on a virtual tabletop with a "paid" DM -- whether it is a guy who volunteers for free swag/subscriptions, or an actual employee whose job it is to click the right mouse buttons to "run" the adventure -- getting the best of both -- traditional and electronic -- RPG worlds.

It's a longshot, I know, and there are entirely too many details for me to be "right" about this, but I think something like this, along these lines, might be where WotC's head is at: they need to incorporate technology into the D&D experience in order to compete against MMOs and the like, and unless they do it soon, the industry (not necessarily the hobby, though) is as good as dead.
 
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