WotC Replies: Statements by WotC employees regarding Dragon/Dungeon going online

[Mistwell]

Uh, bite me? While there have been over the top statements, for the most part things have been pretty rational. Compare to the 4th Ed rumours just prior to GenCon last year.

And if this doesn't affect you, stay out of the threads.

Rational? I feel like my best friend died? I feel like they just drowned my two babies? Will never buy another WOTC product again? Suits?

It does impact me. I just want to try and talk about what's coming up, rather than feed this teeth gnashing.

 

[Simplicity]

Oh for the love of Pete! Rarely have I seen such an embarrassing display of drama queenery and hyperbole.

It's just a couple of magazines, and they will continue to be published online rather than on paper. A press released was issued explaining it by both companies, who both agree it was amicably done. A follow-up long explanation press release was then issued by WOTC while Paizo came on the boards to directly explain that everything is fine, both companies have good plans for the future, and nothing is being killed or ditched, and now we will have twice as much material being published in the future.

And yet many of you sound like you want to commit Seppuku, describe feelings of physical pain and mourning like someone important to you has died, and want to string up some fellow gamers who work for Wizards no matter what they say or how they say it.

Some of y'all need to chill out and stop being such narcissists and drama queens.

Sorry, but that's not an fair summation at all. Dragon and Dungeon are finished. They will not be moving to an online format. The name will not be used, and the content will not be the same. A magazine that I've read off and on since the 80s (most of my life) is finishing. Why shouldn't that hold serious emotional significance for me? People whine when their Battlestar episodes suck. That shows been around for what, 3 years? Ha!

Trial of Champions? No more.
Demonomicon? Nope.
Ecology of Monsters? Uh-uh.
Nodwick? Nope.
Dork Tower? Gone.

These magazines had a big impact on the hobby.

Wizards will be releasing online material which is not written or edited by current Dragon/Dungeon staff. Some would say that the current Wizards material doesn't hold a candle to what Paizo's been doing lately.

So, I'm not seeing this as a positive change. I don't think that makes me a narcissist. I think it makes me a realist.

 

[ssampier]

Your mistake is in assuming it has to be one or the other. No one bemoans Wizards wanting to do stuff on-line, we're annoyed that not only did they drag their feet in letting Paizo do stuff electronically, they now kill the paper product in favor of a pure-digital play, which *no one* has manged to do successfully yet.

They could have chosen to keep both going in such a way that they complemented each other. This path is short-sighted and greedy, and I have yet to see any persuasive argument otherwise.

QFT.

This isn't a stinkin' a MMORPG or Magic Online.

 

[Zaruthustran]

They could have chosen to keep both going in such a way that they complemented each other. This path is short-sighted and greedy, and I have yet to see any persuasive argument otherwise.

How about this? In order to launch a successful subscription model you need A) content, and B) subscribers. By moving the content of Dragon and Dungeon online you simultaneously create A as well as a pool of people who are demonstrably willing to pay for A--in other words, potential B.

If you keep the magazine and just reprint the stuff online, it's a mess. Who is responsible for formatting the content for the web? For maintaining the online structure? For editing? For archiving, hosting fees, customer service? For paying the freelancers for the creation of the content in the first place?

What about the customer? They want Dragon content--content from a magazine published by Paizo--and yet that content is available online only at WotC's site? That's confusing.

Remember that Dragon and Dungeon content are just one component of WotC's DI. As of now, it's the only component of DI that we're aware of--everything else is unannounced. So Dragon and Dungeon content is a perfect introduction to the DI. Even though a fraction of D&D players read those magazines, every player knows about them, and so every player will potentially be curious to check out the DI, if only to browse the portions of Dragon and Dungeon content that will be free. That's a terrific, natural intro to the rest of the DI.

Keeping both delivery mechanisms going simultaneously would be short-sighted, and dilute the value of the DI. By making the WotC DI the sole source of that content, they focus customer interest and create a one-stop shop for all things D&D. That's a long-term view, and it's smart.

-z

PS: As for greedy, I don't understand how that word applies. WotC is a corporation. It exists by providing products and services that people want to buy. Any pricing is determined by demand; they'll charge exactly as much as the most people are willing to pay that results in the greatest amount of profit. Not a penny more or a penny less. Whether that'll be 1,000,000 people willing to pay $5/month, or 500,000 people willing to pay $10/month, well, that's up to WotC's market research company to help determine.

But that's not greed. That's a purely mechanical function of economics.

PSS: Given the figure I saw earlier of 4 million D&D players, I bet they're hoping 5% will pay at least $10/month, resulting in a minimum $2 million bucks a month in subscriptions. That's a nice round number, and enough so that one month of revenue will cover the annual salaries of twenty full-time programmers, leaving the other 11 months to cover other costs and maybe even return a bit of profit. If more people like it, they can charge less. If fewer people like it, they'll have to charge more (and hope to avoid a death spiral). Given that Netflix, Blockbuster Online, etc. have subscriptions of $5-$25 a month, MMORPGs run $10-$20 a month, and Dragon & Dungeon ran a total of $6/month, I bet they'll settle in the $5-$15 range. Maybe five bucks for basic "Player" access, and a higher amount for full-featured "DM" access.

 

[Steel_Wind]

OTOH, I've been a Dragon subscriber for almost three years (would have been four), and a recent Dungeon subscriber. Yet, I haven't bought a WOTC book, or even a gaming book in general, since PHB2.

Please stop trying to universalize your experience.

Please read what I actually wrote - not what you think I wrote:

They also tend the be the ones who subscribe to one or both.

We're not talking about who might buy a D&D mini or a PhB - we're talking about who regularly buys the magazines. That's the base I meant. Those people, in my submission, tend to be hardcore gamers.

I did not say: to be a hardcore gamer, you must buy Dragon or Dungeon regularly.

I did not say: Only hardcore gamers buy Dungeon or Dragon regularly.

I said: The base of customers who regularly buy the magazines tend to be hardcore gamers.

That is, in my opinion, an accurate statement. If you disagree with it - feel free to do so. But using the word "tend" is hardly universalizing my experience and projecting it onto the whole.

 

[Zaruthustran]

Trial of Champions? No more.
Demonomicon? Nope.
Ecology of Monsters? Uh-uh.
Nodwick? Nope.
Dork Tower? Gone.

Wizards will be releasing online material which is not written or edited by current Dragon/Dungeon staff. Some would say that the current Wizards material doesn't hold a candle to what Paizo's been doing lately.

Er, Dork Tower (http://archive.gamespy.com/comics/dorktower/) and Nodwick (http://nodwick.humor.gamespy.com/gamespyarchive/index.php) are online. Right now. How, exactly, are they "gone"?

Those other features are also easily publishable online. And there's no reason why the freelancers who wrote those articles couldn't continue to write them.

Plus, Pathfinder will have Ecology articles (titled something else, no doubt, but the articles will still be about the lives and habits of D&D critters) and other great features, again written by the best contributors to Dragon and Dungeon.

All the meat will still be there, just under a different format / name.

I guess I don't understand what the problem is.

-z

 

[haakon1]

People whine when their Battlestar episodes suck.

I had to quote you to try out my new sig (and thereby see if anybody notices/cares about the funny thing I found).

 

[BiggusGeekus]

This makes me laugh. Is Bill Slavicsek mocking WOTC's suits with a secret "yup, we are evil for doing this" comment, has he just been watching too much Battlestar Galactica, or is it a coinkydink?

You beat me to it.

Just a joke, Bill!

 

[Mistwell]

Sorry, but that's not an fair summation at all. Dragon and Dungeon are finished. They will not be moving to an online format. The name will not be used, and the content will not be the same.

I think you might want to read more of the two WOTC press releases again, as I think you are wrong and also that you have no actual idea what is upcoming from them. Every indication is that the magazines are just moving to a different medium of communication, and are coming back to WOTC where they were before Paizo took over...you know, back when you were also apparently reading and enjoying it.

A magazine that I've read off and on since the 80s (most of my life) is finishing. Why shouldn't that hold serious emotional significance for me?

Because it's a magazine.

People whine when their Battlestar episodes suck. That shows been around for what, 3 years? Ha!

If this were just whining, you would have a good point. This is quite far beyond whining.

Trial of Champions? No more.
Demonomicon? Nope.
Ecology of Monsters? Uh-uh.
Nodwick? Nope.
Dork Tower? Gone.

Wanna bet?

These magazines had a big impact on the hobby.

Wizards will be releasing online material which is not written or edited by current Dragon/Dungeon staff. Some would say that the current Wizards material doesn't hold a candle to what Paizo's been doing lately.

So, I'm not seeing this as a positive change. I don't think that makes me a narcissist. I think it makes me a realist.

You not seeing it as a positive change is a different matter than people throwing a drama queen tantrum and throwing around conspiracy theories and outright hate while comparing this event to children dying and physical assaults.

 

[haakon1]

You beat me to it.

Just a joke, Bill!

Biggus, you're my hero for knowing how to do graphics, finding a good jpeg, and spotting the same geeky thing I spotted! And after me! Ah, I could ask for nothing more from the geek universe today, but nonetheless, I think I'll go see if I "Hot Fuzz" is playing around here.